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What would be needed to get 200bhp from a TF?

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20K views 155 replies 37 participants last post by  Masterbateson  
B
#1 · (Edited)
Just interested :) Not for me but having a debate on another forum ;)

What mods would you need to do to get 200bhp from a TF160 for 'reasonable' money ?


btw, I'm saying it can't be done :)
 
B
#5 ·
Lol, funny enough I was extolling the virtues of the F/TF as an alternative to the MX5 on another forum and dealing with the usual MG prejudices and misinformation when someone said you can get them to 200 for reasonable money.

Whilst I would be delighted if that's true from what I've read during my time on here it seems overly optimistic so I thought I would double check and ask the experts ;)
 
A
#8 ·
Yep beat me to it, I have 175hp, the extra 25 is going to be expensive. So far I have a 52mmTB, Flowed and ported 160Trophy head, Tiapan cold air feed, Piper Fast road cam and D Andrews timming dowels a cleaned up exhaust manifold with an FSR FPR.
Next, decent cams, solid lifter kit a good engine management system, 4-2-1 manifold, individual throttle bodys
 
N
#17 ·
Yeah Figo
The 1.4 engine in a F/TF I suggested that a long time ago in my column in MGWorld.

Back to the 200bhp. It's all a bit marginal at that level. things are going to get messy no matter what.

I have another idea. lose weight
just add lightness as Colin Chapman used to say.

So strip out all the Mike Satur Bling. get all the bits you dont need to drag about out drill holes in the bits you leave behind and give up chips.

Best mod you can do is to tune the nut behind the wheel.

That and a few handling mods, grippy tyres, brakes sorted and balanced front to rear

then you can forget the pain of creating 200bhp
 
C
#21 ·
200+ from a K series
You will need a
GEMS ECU or similar
Larger injectors
Better Fuel pump which will give increased rail pressure at high revs
Repro Cams
Proper exhaust manifold
Rev limit in excess of 7500 to get the air through
56mm throttle body

Caterham get 300+BHP from a 1.8 (or used to) without modifying the bottom end apart from an ultra lightweight flywheel
 
X
#22 ·
To get 200 bhp is one thing, and if you get it at 7000+rpm, not sure how often people rev that high.

Torque spread is almost more important to get good drivability, and if you can get higher torque over a wider spread, it transforms a TF into something else all the time, and not only when you rev the daylights out of it...
 
M
#23 ·
ok so just a thought i have a MGF VVC and a friend of my is inlove with elises. they both have the same engine right? then how does the elise have around 200bhp and the VVC only has 149bhp. would it not be simple to look at the lotus engine and do the same to the MGF and how would you go about doing that?
 
#25 ·
The Elise has similar power...the 190 spec is usually a Toyota engine

The vvc mechanism is the weak spot for high power - to get towards 200 bhp you need 8000 plus revs - the vvc mech starts to lose the plot at 7800.

Hence the 190bhp race VHPD having solid cams/lifters steel crank/forged pistons/multiple intake etc. By the way fitting multiple intakes to a vvc is a bit pointless for the same reason, as the breathing benefit only starts to show towards 8000rpm..

By the way I have a friend with a sprint k1.8 ZR putting out 230bhp - revs to 9000 and has only exploded once so far...
 
N
#26 ·
It all seems a bit like dimishing returns, or worse a fool's erand.
Spend a load of money, lose any reliability and vapourise the value of the car or the likelihood of anybody wanting to ever buy it

Easier option. Buy that Lotus

Mind you a few more horses from my old 118bhp MPi would be appreciated occasionally. Ive done the air filter and the exhaust. and with a Mems 2 there's not a lot that cona be done to pep it up a bit.
 
C
#29 ·
To me it doesn't come down to "is it possible" but how much people consider a decent price.

If you are a serious tuner/modder then you realise that £10k isn't bad for an extra 50bhp and extra torque. What we usually have though is people who want to get mega figures for pocket money prizes, and that is the holy grail. Quite often it doesn't work and leads to pub room boasts about what their car should push out after they have fitted an electric turbo and a tuning chip off e-bay. Also what you sometimes see is someone who has managed to get a fair bit more for minimal outlay, but the engine goes pop further down the road.

It is in the blood of the true tinkerer to want to add a few bits and twiddle a few knobs and vastly improve their car, but there is a reason that the proper engine builders and tuners charge a fortune for it.

When you see that a set of forged pistons will set you back £500+ and then you have to start thinking about conrods, crank etc etc.
 
A
#32 ·
i agree with that when it comes to the K series (rover/MG one)

but you have to admit when you can bolt on a £3,500 turbo kit (plus £400 mapping) to a K20a Honda engine and be guaranteed over 500 bhp and total reliability... then £10k for 50 bhp seems a heck of allot

150% increase in power for less than £4k ;)

the same with the Toyota 2JZ-FE engine... set of cams, remove the twin turbos and add a single bigger one... full exhaust sytem, bigger injectors and a re-map and you can see 700bhp on stock internals (people are pushing 900 on stock internals now out of supras)

all that would cost you maybe 3-4 grand? by the time you sell old parts and you have still total reliability and more power than any super car and more than most hyper cars

or the Skyline RB26-DETT... £10k from one of thoes will see a good 650 bhp and a totally flat torque curve with uprated clutch to put the power onto all 4 wheels and eat vayrons for lunch

and thats an older engine than the K series... hard to compact a turbo 6 pot and a n/a 4 pot i know but still... makes me question spending £10,000 on 50 bhp :(
 
S
#37 ·
Bit off topic (sorry), but you could try and find one of these:

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group1/MGF_concepts/200HPD/index.htm#What

I don't know if they were ever produced, but I'm pretty sure that I saw one on Ebay a few months ago. I didn't have a clue what they were showing under the bonnet, just knew I didn't know what the extra piece of 'equipment' was. Or maybe someone was just using stock pictures of a 160 and used the wrong ones.

Would be interested if anyone knows if they were ever made.
 
A
#50 ·
true... but im hoping to be able to dial everything back from 11 to 5 so that i can use it as a GT-R... GT for road use and R for when i get on a track

with adjustable dampeners and boost pressure valve... and the option of 3 maps on my K-Pro i should have a very versatile car really

true i'll get a fair bit of vibration from my very solid engine mounts but i doubt it will bother me much... i may need to swap springs to something less harsh for road driving... but im sort of attacking my project to make it as track biased as i can, then i can soften it up if it's too much



Talking to Lou at TDi North i should be able to run 3 maps... wastgate or a bit more pressure and appropriate fueling for when weather is tricky

an economy map where the car runs a bit lumpy incase i need to give it to someone other than me to drive (MoT time)

and a 3rd map for track use to see full use of boost and appropriate mapping

they also map the ECU and boost gauge to run more BHP the further through the gears you get.. so that should make the car so much more drivable... even if i was silly enough to plant the throttle and spool up in 1st/2nd and even 3rd i wouldn't have full power

it all sounds very clever and they run road use CTRs with upto 800bhp using this method with no issues :)

im also swapping my 6th gear for a longer ratio so i can cruise in it (its pointless on a track anyway) the lotus boys do this and it's ment to make the car eat miles as your effectively on tick over (for them) at 75 mph :D


i might be totaly wrong and i'll have built and un-drivable animal... but people say that allot on forums "it can't be done... it'll be dangerous, it'll kill you and eat babies and war veterans as it drives past"

but they can't back this up and are totally unwilling to try it but happy to tell me with absolute certainty that it can't be done :( but at least im going to try... i guess thats where me and you are very similar clive!

and besides... if im wrong i can soon take my turbo set up off... sell it for what i paid for it and go back to N/A form and enjoy a 230bhp totally reliable TF :)
 
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