Yes the timing goes out and you get a horrible noise, sometimes smashed pistons/valves. My mate has a 214 8v and he was ragging it and then it made a loud noise. It ran ok, but was a bit smoky, he got home and found the tensioner to have collapsed. The outer and inner parts had come apart, the bearings were shot. It was the manual type tensioner. So me and a friend went and fitted a new tensioner for him, got it timed up and it wouldn't start so I remove the fuel cut off plug and it started. I put the plug back in and it ran fine, very loud though, it ran for another few hundred miles before the Head Gasket blew, an expansion tank full of mayo to the top :lol:. Now he was very lucky not to have smashed valves/pistons, I was very surprised!

 

Here is a picture of the failed tensioner...

 

Worst case, something like this...

 

What type of noise is it John?

I had a noise on my 45 last year which I was convinced was the timing belt tensioner, turned out to be the A/C compressor.

 

Well it is not the tensioner. Replaced that with new one.

Took a load of pictures for a 'how to' and some video with engine running with sound. Cannot load them as Photobucket is being serviced at the moment so cannot access it.

So no danger of tensioner self destructing so my son is using the car at the moment. Yes, one of the suspects must be the A/C Compressor and also the Alternator.

I have one of each of those spare and will change the Alternator first.

Looks like one of those mystery noises which will take some identifying...

I'll post up more including the noise of the running engine when i can load the stuff on Photobucket.

Getting my ear close to the engine there's a possibility the noise is coming from the Camshafts ... surely not ... :dunno:

Ongoing.

 

Drop the alternator and PAS belts off and start the engine, can identify/rule out things?

 

Yes, that's on the cards next. My son is working a ten hour day non-stop for the last three weeks and the car is rarely home. I cannot access my Photobucket Account at the moment ... "maintenance" reasons.. :dunno: otherwise I'd post a vid with sound for folks to give an opinion.

Maybe wrong and hope I am but, to my old ears, the sound appears to come from the Camshaft area ...

Cars and funny noises can be misleading. Twenty years ago, a noisy gearbox on my MG Montego was the pro-advice which turned out to be a worn wheel bearing on the opposite side of the car... as I discovered after changing the box for a known silent one ...

All part of life's rich learning process....

 

Got a helpful and apologetic reply to my enquiry with Photobucket. Now up and running again.

The following few pictures I took when replacing the Timing Belt Tensioner on my son's R25 :~

First picture shows the method I use to rotate the Crankshaft to the 'safe' setting.

This is the Tensioner to be fitted.

One attempt to realign the Camshaft Pulleys resulted in one tooth 'out' although a visual check without a straight edge was misleading. I marked it with a couple of small pieces of sticky lable as an aid when refitting the Tensioner. :~

After correction removed those bits of label and using my trusty straight edge, checked the Pulleys for correct alignment. Spot on :~

Started the engine and was a tad disappointed that the 'noise' was still present. Click on the image to see and listen to the engine :~



I hope I'm wrong but, the noise appears to be coming from the top of the engine suggesting Camshaft noises. What do other 'ears' think it might be?

Have not had a chance to check his car since doing this work as my son has been working a ten hour day, seven day week for the best part of the past month and needs the car each day

If and when we identify the noise origins will post an update. Apart from noise, engine runs well.

 

More and and a new noise last couple of days my son mentioned his front brakes and he was right :~

Metal to metal contact on front nearside outer disc surface. Not nice :~

I had a used pair of brake pads which will suffice until a set of new front Discs and Pads arrive in the week. So will prepare the Caliper and fit the used Pads pending arrival of new stuff. Used LM Grease on the Slider Pins after a clean up. The calipers although covered in road filth and surface corrosion, were in good working order :~

Winding the Caliper's Piston back after a good clean up :~

Fully home to allow clearance for the nearly new used Pads :~

Used Pads in place after clean and grease of their location. Road crud can stop smooth auto adjustment as the pads wear down leading to irregular wear or even seizure of the pads :~

Swung the Caliper down onto the replacement pads and tightened the one removed 12mm Caliper Bolt and refitted the road wheel. Before driving off to test, firmly pressed the brake pedal about ten times with engine at idle to take up any slack in the Caliper Piston-Brake Pad interface until a nice firm pedal resulted. Then took sfive mile trip up and down a local B-Road down a the steep Cotswold Scarp which required much use of the brakes. The idea to planish the unmatched used disc and pads to improve efficiency. The first few heavy applications saw the expected pull to the nearside. However, the plannishing improved with each brake application until both sides were matched with hardly any trace of a pull to the nearside. My younger son with me all the time and i marked his card as to what to look out for until the new discs and pads are fitted.

Still not identified the original "Dad my car's making a funny noise" whining noise. I now suspect the noise IS from the top of the engine and possibly due to worn camshafts or their plain bearings. If that is the case, we have a good spare cylinder head. Fitting that will undo my good work replacing the cylinder head gasket two years ago when we first got the car. The coolant level has not moved for those two years since repair which included a new water pump. I live in hope that it is a worn bearing in the alternator of AirCon Compressor. Have good used spares of both those standing by. My son has been working a 10-12 hour day for most of the past month and only today when he finished work at four this afternoon did I have an opportunity to work on his car. Next gap in his work hours I'll run the engine without the pas and Alternator Polyvee belts connected. If the noise is still there, then it's the engine. If it's not, then its one of those auxilliary components making that noise.

That's what Dads are for .... all part of the fun of family car ownership...
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John-a good tip when identifying noises is to use a screwdriver as an automotive stethescope. Hold the blade against the questioned component with it rotating naturally with the engine running and put the handle to your ear. Any roughness/noise you will hear clearly-try it. Works for finding lazy/sticking tappets too.

If it's the A/C compressor-you'll find the noise will usually change/disappear when the A/C is switched on/off.

 

Yes, that is a good tip and useful way of checking as noise travels better through solids than through air.

 

If you have a spare good head you could leave the head in place and just swap the cams etc into it if it turns out to be that , drop the belts off it see if it dissapears so many pulleys and idlers it could be any of them !

 

Yes, swapping camshafts, that's another possibility I've been turning over in my mind. Keep the ideas coming folks. We shall see.

Because my son is a couple of years off his 25th birthday, his insurance policy does not allow him to drive other cars otherwise I'd lend him one of mine and get stuck into fixing his.
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I have never known or even heard of worn camshaft/bearings on a k series. I would be very surprised if it was this

 

These arrived 12:22 pm today, some twenty six hours after I paid for them on ebay. Excellent service from ebay seller parts2clear and the courier they use.

Got stuck in soon after 13:00 after a bite to eat. This fithy carrier needs cleaning:~

Cleaned and greased ready for new pads to slot in ... with fingers, not a big 'ammer like some folks use I could mention :~

Soon had the new Disc fitted to the nearside Hub and Pads slotted into their carrier :~

Closer view of new Pads in place :~

Rotated the Caliper down over the new Pads and fitted the 12mm retaining bolt. Then applied pressure on the Brake Pedal several times to prime the fluid and take up any slack between Brake Caliper Piston and the Pads. Nice firm pedal now as I like them to be :~

I used an Impact Driver and Club hammer to release the countersunk disc location screws. They were not corroded or overtightened as is often the case and in such good condition I used them again with a little copper based grease to reduce the chances of corrosion welding. Apart from road filth and surface corrosion, both Caliper Assemblies were in fine working condition. Even so, I cleaned all four Sliders and refreshed their lubricant with some LM Grease.

Then repeated the process on the OFF side assembly :~

Job done. Again a few pumps on the Brake Pedal to prime the brake hydraulics and take up any slack between piston and pads.

Then drove the car for a few miles and was delighted at the improvement in this little car's brakes. Superb and they will get better when fully bedded in. My son has a much safer car now.

One little tip which may prove useful. Rather than use a G-Cramp to retract the Caliper Pistons, I used a very stout screwdriver to slowly lever the old pads so that the piston became fully retracted to allow sufficient clearance for the much thicker new Brake Pads. Like this :~

That noise is still there with the engine running at anything above about 1100 rpm. That investigation is ongoing and when time allows, I'll make a systematic check of all likely suspects.



I hope you are right about that and it's something less serious.
.

 

Nicely done! You'll be doing it all over again soon

 

Those new discs and pads look smart - suspect I'll be doing that too soon...

 

Not only look smart, they work bluddy well too. My son is out in it now with his lady friend and no metal to metal contact noises now..

Both sides were just starting metal to metal with just a wafer thin bit of friction material left which would soon disappear with a few heavy brake applications. So we caught it all just in time.

I must mention the service of the ebay seller Online Automotive I got the Brake Discs and pads from. I pressed the Buy it Now button at about 9:20 on Monday morning and soon after received an item dispatched email via ebay.

08:48 this morning I got a pm advice from Online Auto ...

Your order is due for delivery
between 12:20-13:20 today


Your order from Online Automotive is out for delivery today by Matt your DPD driver and is due to be delivered between 12:20-13:20. Can you please ensure that someone will be available to sign for the parcel at:

At 12:22 this morning there was a knock on my front door ~ It was Matt with my Discs and Pads.... all of two minutes late ! ... :lol:

Now that's what I call service. All I did was press the Buy it Now button. No need to trawl into town and get a set. That's the best of on-line buying. Less than four hours later they were on my son's car.
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Went to look at a clio 2.0 sport 172 today had the same sound like it was coming from the top of the engine like a grating noise
Walked away from it

 

It's hard to tell but it appears you fitted the pads dry. Did you not apply any copper grease to them?

They will soon be whistling and seized in the carrier again if so.

 

No they wont...

Yes, I used copper based grease in the four stainless steel lug locators in the carriers after cleaning and on the interface of the caliper piston and on the two parts on the opposing pad location. As I usually do and no problems ever. I also checked that the lugs on the pads are able to move freely across as the friction material wears away. If one or more of the Lugs jam in their locations, you get irregular wear patterns like this tapered new pad I discovered soon after buying my favourite 620ti a few years ago. Previous owner assured me new pads had been fitted and obviously they had. What he did not know was that they had been fitted by an uncaring worker and one of the lugs was wedged in its location and so braking efficiency was below par and thus soon resulting in huge irregular and tapered wear differential of both new pads as this picture clearly shows.

Some TLC, a tad of copper based grease and careful assembly with new pads gave the car superb brakes. I still have that car and the brakes are fine.

Another 620ti suffering from severe lack of TLC to its rear brakes was even worse ~ steeply tapered and irregular wear where one lug had become seized in its carrier. A completely worn away friction material on one pad and severely tapered wear on the opposing pad :~

The other pair of rear pads on this car were even worse :~

My son has just got back in and confirmed the brakes on his Rover 25 are the best. I did drive it before handing over it to him to ensure all was well... it was. That's what Dad's are for ...

NOTE: Whilst waiting for quote for a couple of tyres in one of those nationwide exhaust and tyre fit places, I observed someone fitting new pads to a customers car. he worked very quickly, using a hammer to hammer the new pads into the crud of the carrier locations. They were seized with immediate effect. Some clueless workers confuse speed with efficiency. This bad practice is far from rare in my experience.
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Ah, I was sure it was just the photo didn't highlight the use of grease

 

I also used the copper grease between the interfaces of the hub-disc-wheel. Should anyone ever want to remove these components, they wont need to use a big 'ammer. ... I even put a smear on the countersunk disc locator screws for the same reason. My son's car is showing 87,000 miles. He's done about 7,500 miles in it since he bought it two years ago.

 

My younger son James has been working a 10-12 hour day 6-7 days a week and needs this Rover 25 for his to-from work journey. The noise has got much worse with time so much so that when he starts up at 5.45 in the morning, the nasty noise awoke me. Talk about Banshees in the night ...

Must do something soon so as he finished with about an hour of daylight left today, I got stuck in after asking did he need the car tonight.

First thing I did was remove the Power Steering Pump Drive Belt. Started engine, still nasty noise. Stopped engine and removed the Polyvee Belt which drives the Alternator and AirCon Compressor.... Started it again ...NICE SMOOTH RUNNING ENGINE! Reasonably quiet when blipping the Throttle too.

Click on image :~



Spinning the Alternator by hand soon revealed the guilty party... noisy even when spinning by finger power alone! What a relief! So one of those two was the guilty component after all. Glad it was the Alternator, much easier to change than the AirCon compressor.

The car is showing 87,000 miles.

That high mileage Rover 45 I removed most of the useful parts from recently donated an identical Alternator for this car. Fitted that and now son No.2 has a nice near silent running Rover 25.... again.

RESULT! That's TWO "Results" on consecutive days, my 620ti passing the MoT retest yesterday being the other ...

.
Thanks Dad! ... :broon:
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That's what Dads are for...

 

Drove my son's Rover 25 today and I have to say, it drives well and those new discs and pads I fitted now work in the way I like brakes to feel and stop the car... superb. This set off ebay costing a tad under £34 posted arriving next morning. These are they ~ very good all aspects :~

Nice that my son's car is now in good shape .... I tend to worry about his car as unlike his older brother, he's not clued up about the mechanical side of cars. Mind you, anything IT or PC related, he is light years ahead of me and frequently sorts out problems on my PC and Laptop. He is keen to learn about his car though which is encouraging.

 

How do you find the smaller non-vented discs on the smaller engined cars? Everyone seems to suggest upgrading to 262mm vented brakes, but I've personally never had any problems braking and stopping when needed with the smaller discs.

Should pads and discs be changed after a certain number of years regardless of wear? Mine were changed in November 2009, and at a recent check the pads are 30% worn, so at this rate they'd last nearly 10 years!

 

John maybe tappet noise ... ?

Click on image :~

 

I think my camera picked up too much noise with that recording. I held it very close to the running engine. The actual noise to my ears was much less. The car is running well now.

Once off the car, spinning that Alternator just with the fingers clearly indicated what was making that dreadful noise which first thoughts I believed was serious upper engine problems.

Glad to say it was simply a worn bearing in the Alternator. Apart from that noise, the Alternator was doing the job it was designed to do quite well. When time allows and if I have the right tools, I will dismantle that noisy Alternator and check the bearings. Maybe replacements if they are available.

 

John I'm glad that this is the problem, it's not something more serious.

 

My girlfriends 25 has starting making a whirring noise - at low revs (say 2k rpm) and when idling. Sounds like cambelt but that was done 3k miles ago along with a brand new alternator.

 

New or remanufactured ? ... could be that.

 

Hi John,

Sorry to hijack, but it is relevant! Just wondering if the alternator bearing(s) sounded like this?
http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/jj128/JoonyerHTID/?action=view&current=VIDEO0061.mp4

I'm hoping my noise is just the alternator as I can live with that, as opposed to something more terminal. The lads on the Derv forum aren't concerned so I'm feeling a bit better, but just wondered if this sounds like your son's did.

thanks
Matt

*edit* oops, just found your video of yours... sounds nothing like mine!