I think it will be back on ebay as bits within the 3 month mark.

Good luck all the same - just hope its as light as the K series!

 

You pesimist! I'm kinda hoping that the extra weight should aid traction

 

Hello and welcome

I was thinking about the K series turbo the other day and was wondering if it could be reliable long term if buitl properly.

As for other engines, one that comes to mind is the Calibra turbo, IIRC its the earlier 16v engine from the original Astra 16v rather than the later ecotec - I am sure it had a 6 speed box as well. Or what about the engine from your Astra 888, this should give better performance as the TF is lighter.

Otherwise what about the VW/Audi 1.8T engine - these can be tuned to 350bhp that I know of and also can come with a 6 speed box.

CJJ on here is planning a supercharger conversion for the K series - have a look for his thread so far.

Not an easy task getting another engine to fit and be cooled properly but best of luck:broon:

 

Following on from the VW 1.8T engine/box, Grinnall fit this engine to their Scorpion IV which is also a mid engine RWD so the cooling can be done. This car is amazing - incredible performance:evil:

Here is a link to the Grinnall site -
Click

 

A far as my 190ps astra goes the turbos are poor it isn't a thrash it feel and is the same size as the vxr lump.
The old 6 speeds vauxhall used are crude. I want refined and sweet and as the vw lump would work they are 180 standard. the vxr is 240 standard should remap to 270 very easy and with forged pistons as standard can go to 400 bhp if your mad.

 

True that the VW engine is 180 standard, it will need work to get more BHP.

The astra VXR could be the way to go.

 

I've a fealling the Grinnall was built around the engine. I don't have that luxury. And it's not a real car with the refinements of the TF. You see, because the VXR handles so badly they're being written off all the time so there's a few engines knocking around from time to time. Cooling is easily sorted, there is loads of room up front for a big rad with twin fans. It's more the shafts and wiring that concerns me.

 

............You see, because the VXR handles so badly they're being written off all the time so there's a few engines knocking around from time to time. Cooling is easily sorted, there is loads of room up front for a big rad with twin fans. It's more the shafts and wiring that concerns me.

I see - that explains why so many engines were available for installation into other cars.

I wonder if the easier option would be to purchase the engine together with the wiring loom etc so the wiring and ECU can be more or less transplanted.

 

Does this engine turn the right way? 240bhp and six speed reverse gearbox would certainly be interesting.

 

Yes it's exactly the same just about 6 feet further back. There are a number of similarities like - both have electric PAS and cable gear linkage even the front upper engine mounting comes through the timing belt cover in the same place (ish).

 

That's what I've bought. including shafts and key (for immobiliser). But the modern car is so well integrated with other components fitted via can-bus that I was hoping someone out there had a little experience of this kind of transplant.

 

I'm one of the nutters currently working on different engines in an F, I've got 190 bhp out of my vvc but just wanted something different, here's a bit of background every day my F does at least 226 miles from home to my office, plus business miles on top, then to the track on weekends, sooooo yes I have to keep throwing money at it like a looney but I still think for the pounds cash to the miles its an amazing and very tuff little motor.

However....lol I have been waiting for Mike Satur's new kit coming out, this will allow you to just drop in a type R engine, thats bespoke engine mounts, calbes, drive shafts, gear change arms and so on and so on....

The point being the type R is a little heavier sure....but at present I carry trolley jacks, socket sets, spare water pipes ....lol and thats without carrying a passenger. The type R uk version is around 190bhp, the import version is around 220, Realtech do a race version type R thats built like a tank and with a supercharger its up to around 465bhp the engine standard is a 2.3l and is rated to about 550bhp (available in this country through an importer).....this is the best route I have found so far to take and given time you could just build with buy off the shelf parts..

sorry if some have had to read this again but can't remember if it was this site I posted it before

PS the down side of building something crazy like this......I have done all the research but I'm still saving the best part of 10k to do it

GOOD LUCK with your idea let us all know how you get on????????

 

This question seems to pop up every few months or so, the general concencious is that the excess heat created by the Turbo/intercooler would be hard to remove in an already tight (and Hot) engine bay..

Other Conversions that 'have' been done are the KV6 in an 'F', and a Civic Type-R lump-also in an 'F', the latter gives around 230bhp IIRC however this conversion ran into 5 figures...:yikes:

Might be a hell of a lot cheaper/easier just to buy a faster car!....:_poke:

 

as it can't even be reliable when NASP.

Really?

How do you work that one out?

It is perfectly possible to get good, reliable power out of a K - if you know how to build it right.

Once again people buy into the myth that the K is fragile.

Yawn. :yawn:

 

think there lies the problem... the if bit!

can cane a b16 honda for 40k without a complaint when you dont bother with it!

 

Might be cheaper and easier but it wouldn't be much fun!
Incidently - how much would I have to spend to get a 2 seater convertible that's 3 years old with a power to weight ratio of 210bhp/ton. A don't mention kit cars please. Real cars only.

 

14 secs is respectible. Whats the BHP?
Nitrous is great for standing quarters but a gas bottle would probably only just get me home from work. I need another for the morning!!

 

14 secs is respectible. Whats the BHP?

Dynoed at around 240.

I get just shy of 200bhp and 225 ft.lbs torque at the wheels.

Nitrous is great for standing quarters but a gas bottle would probably only just get me home from work. I need another for the morning!!

A half full 11lb bottle lasted me 3x 20 minute sessions at Silverstone on the GP Circuit.

 

The motor i've bought has done 12k so even if they're only good for 50k i reckon that it will last me about 5 years if I can keep it cool.
Just need to increase air flowe through engine bay. normal driving should be fine, it's just when I boot it it's going to need some cool air. Have thought of using the air con compressor to feed some cool air via a condensor and evaporatorin to engine bay if can find a small evap to go with a small intercooler in the side vent.
I'll just have to put the roof down to keep me cool!!

 

or get a few air directors designed and modify boot to accomodate

 

if you can fit it that engine should be fine. The block is basically the same as the 2.2 used in the vx220 just with a smaller stroke. it is an alloy block like the k

 

It surprises me how much negativity there is surrounding a convertion like this. I've not had one person say "I've tried it but had major overheating problems" or "couldn't get it to fit".
Looks to me like everyone would like to but no-one's got the danglies to try it!
Well as I have a full workshop at my disposal, so I'm going to give it a go.

"Xr3tf is carrying out a turbo conversion to his K-series." ??
Surely a 160 tf is going to give as much power?
In my view, if your going to do it, do it right!

Would I be right in thinking it would be the most powerfull TF is it pushes out about 270BHP?

 

It surprises me how much negativity there is surrounding a convertion like this. I've not had one person say "I've tried it but had major overheating problems" or "couldn't get it to fit".
Looks to me like everyone would like to but no-one's got the danglies to try it!
Well as I have a full workshop at my disposal, so I'm going to give it a go.

"Xr3tf is carrying out a turbo conversion to his K-series." ??
Surely a 160 tf is going to give as much power?
In my view, if your going to do it, do it right!

Would I be right in thinking it would be the most powerfull TF is it pushes out about 270BHP?

Come on mate, some of us are trying to be helpfull and give advice. Cooling will be a problem, but it can be overcome. Just because some of us are aiming for more modest returns doesn't make ours less of a project. If all you are worried about is having the most powerful TF and proving how large your danglies are then fair enough. I would rather build something with good torque and power that is at least as reliable as the existing setup.

 

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=85879&highlight=mike+supercharge+honda post 9.

 

Anthing is possible if you have the funds and the technical know how. And by the sounds of it you have both. I wish you all the best in this and cant wait to see it when its finished.

 

Thanks Steve for your comments.
And I don't mean to knock anybody else's project.

I love the cars and love power so to me it makes sense.

The type R conversion seems quite pricey. But of course your paying someone else labour, and a lot of it!! And I've looked in to the supercharger add-ons for the type R and they are a big lump of cash. Which is what brought me to the vxr lump as for under £2 you get the lot! Just needs fitting!

The weight shouldn't ad more than 80kg - just like having a passenger.

But your point about cold water return is a good one and may require some investigation.
Thanks

 

The weight shouldn't ad more than 80kg - just like having a passenger.

Yeah, sitting on the boot. :dddc:

But seriously, go for it. If we can share any tips then all the better.

 

Have a look at the size of the side vents on the VX220 Tubby below (rear engine, RWD) then the size of the boot lid vents, which will give you an idea about how much air needs to get in/out of the bay....... and the 2nd pic is just one of the two boot lid vents.

 

That's that solved then!

 

I have watched this thead but no commented until now ! The pic above gives a good idea of what similar modifications need to be done to a TF if you want to turbo charge it.

On the VX220 the bonnet grilles let the hot air off the back of the radiator out, on a TF with no bonnet vents the hot air dissipated from the radiator has nowhere to go apart from recirculating all over the radiator, hence the cooling system will not be up to the job, it "may" be OK in the UK in autumn, spring and winter but if the summer months get anywhere near 30°C+ you wil have problems cooing the engine. The other issue is the size of the aperture in the front grille, the VX220 grille is huge compared to a TF and at speed the upper grille in a TF does very little in the way of airflow, hardly any air goes through the upper grille in the bumper so you are purely reliant on the lower one.

The second problem you have is trying to find somewhere to site a charge air cooler, there isnt anywhere in a standard TF, even if you find a suitable place you need to duct air to it for the cooler to work properly.

Your best bet is to find out how much heat (in KW) a turbo charged "K" series produces and then size the radiator accordingly, it may not fit, you also then need to take into account the coolant pressure drop across the (bigger) radiator, the more tubes you have the geater the pressure drop, and also how much pressure the coolant system loses whilst "on route" to the front of the car.

One thing you could try is removing the A/C system completely as this will stop around 8kw of heat having to be removed from the system by the cooling pack. The heat dissipated from the condenser (hot air off the back of it) goes straight onto the radiator, which is also not good for the engine cooling system (physics says air at 70°C onto a radiator is not as good as say "ambient air" at 30°C).

The side vents are also needed to lower engine bay temperatures, again if you do it, add the side air scoops as they wil lower the engine bay temps by around 10-12°C, if you want to be extra interested you should add extra air vents in the top surface of the boot lid, next to the existing ones that are already there.

All of the above is just the cooling system, you will also need to think about the extra torque and power on the transmission, drive shafts, clutch etc etc !!

"Dogs danglies" and size of them doesnt come into it, its more about getting the system right to start with, if you dont the engine will be dead in no time !

 

The second problem you have is trying to find somewhere to site a charge air cooler, there isnt anywhere in a standard TF, even if you find a suitable place you need to duct air to it for the cooler to work properly.

I have found more than enough space to mount an intercooler and an enclosure to force air through it, even if it is not as big as I would like it to be. It should however easily cope with my K-series turbo conversion, it being relatively low boost. Side scoops with direct feed should provide enough ambient temp air. It fits to the same mounting points where the airbox was previously mounted to.

Plan to go the aircon / intercooler route with the Zetec motor - you can buy an aircon system that runs off the battery / alternator - will still investigate when I get to that point.

In some ways I think it is easier to do an "engine swap" than turbo'ing the K-series, as you have to get a subframe, box / simulate the size of the engine bay and then you can build your conversion outside of the car. Stand alone engine management is relatively easy and affordable, so you ignore the standard MEMS for that purpose. To work on the K-series whilst still in the vehicle is not easy - even some of the most basic things become a mission when you have to shoehorn a tubular manifold & turbo in there, and then you still have to do all the other tubing. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, just challenging...

 

Intersting also that the above VX has the radiator mounted horizontal, not vertical like the TF, combined again with huge bonnet vents.

Not the best picture, but as an idea.......

 

Thanks for your constructive comments guys. Have decided it's going to happen. Have the engine and box now.
I plan to open up two more vents on the boot, outside of the originals and fit a longer, fatter core radiator with twins, dual stage fans. When more the air flow should cope with the increased heat. Bonnet vents to draw the air out on the radiator will allow me to run Air con 'cause I can't do without it!
The intercooler that XR3TF is using looks great to me may be not as big as I would like but will be using his scoops (hopefully) if they hit production! On n/s to feed intercooler and o/s to cool engine bay. i haven't yet ruled out fitting a secondary fan to the engine bay if I can find somewhere to put - may have to sacrifice some boot space. The engine does fit in the subframe - just. But just is enough and looks like the shafts will line up - just.

At moment I'm considering Ecu's and looking at perhaps omex. Don't know if megasquirt can run Lambda control, wasted spark and seqential injection. Also omex unit give 3 ouputs which will be very useful.

Anyway I welcome you thoughts.