Interesting... sadly it matches up with what I've heard on the grapevine and read on here too.

Amazing how you tend to hear whispers like this all start at the same time....

(i.e. Monday).

Although it has to be said, most people I speak to appreciate the hard work most of the P4 did, its the 5th member who tends to attract the flack.

But then he does drive a cayenne, what do you expect :doh:

 

Yep, I think I know who you are talking about!

 

Its a fact that the its the people at the very top who make or break a company.
There are plenty examples of great Britsh companies being ruined by arrogant, egotistical and short sighted, narrow minded, incompetent CEOs.

Take Marks & Sparks - ruined by a former CEO who was an unapproachable bully (Lord somebody or other).
They will probably go to the wall eventally.

Take Marconi - ruined by the 2 accountants who were in effect appointed by the 'city'. They invested everything in buying up overseas Telecoms companies. Big mistake.

Of course all these managers walk away with big pensions, Golden Handshakes. They're never held to account.

In the face of falling sales, MGR management did nothing to make Rovers more attractive to buyers until it was too late.

 

You say "MG Rover Management" that is a term you need to be carefull of using, remember MANY of them were excellent but had their hands well and truly tied behind their backs.

From now on when you refer to MG Rover bad management of the business you should refer specifically to the P5.

 

Eurgh, this isn't sounding very promising.

I wonder why the fifth member hasn't been brought into the media spotlight before to share all the blame that has been cast on them countless times before? Or are the media not really that interested in truths?.... oh, wait, I think I've answered my own question there.

Incidentally, Companies House shows a few companies under the Phoenix Venture banner (one of which has outstanding accounts).

 

Incidentally, Companies House shows a few companies under the Phoenix Venture banner (one of which has outstanding accounts).

And of course it also shows MG Rover Cars UK Ltd, registered on 22 March this year at Eversheds in Manchester... the directors (I paid the £1 to find out) are listed as EVERSECRETARY LTD and EVERDIRECTOR LTD, both also registered at the same address.

So whoever set this up is being very coy about who's behind it; but the fact that Eversheds had much to do with the original Techtronic buy-out of Rover from BMW means it's probably an 'inside job.'

Did they know something before 22 March? Or was this, maybe the intended JV company perhaps? Or as EssexMGR pointed out before, maybe it was the company that would have continued with the TF, outside of the JV?

 

This has been part of my thinking for a few days now. This US China-no-go thing notwithstanding, I see two possibilities:

1) Almighty ****-up combined with some deception and lack of concern for those further down the line.

or

2) Some very clever plan to revitalise the operations, restructure the business, and clear (most of?) the liabilities.

I also think I know who this individual is. The guy who first showed public interest back in 2000 :irked:

 

With regards to MG Rover UK Ltd and whether this means they new the end was nigh, well yes of course they did. There's no way that a company that has watched the pennies as fastidiously as MGR would not be aware it was haemorraging £25m per month lately. 22nd of March eh? hmm, that would be just after the time SAIC got a copy of the books to play with wouldn't it?:_poke:

 

I also think I know who this individual is. The guy who first showed public interest back in 2000 :irked:

I'm not so sure of this. Mr Moulton said in 2000 and said again this week he would only be interested in MG and not Rover. So if Mr Moulton had registered the name, he wouldn't have called it MG Rover Cars UK Ltd but just MG Cars UK Ltd.

 

I'm not so sure of this. Mr Moulton said in 2000 and said again this week he would only be interested in MG and not Rover. So if Mr Moulton had registered the name, he wouldn't have called it MG Rover Cars UK Ltd but just MG Cars UK Ltd.

Yeah I doubt it's Moulton. Eversheds advised the P4 (before the 5th member joined, IIRC) when they set up Techtronic/PVH in 2000.

 

Lets just be clear about something, I for one think the P4 are a lot less to blame than the 5th member....

 

I'm not so sure of this. Mr Moulton said in 2000 and said again this week he would only be interested in MG and not Rover. So if Mr Moulton had registered the name, he wouldn't have called it MG Rover Cars UK Ltd but just MG Cars UK Ltd.

No, I wasn't referring to Moulton, but someone who was part of the Phoenix circle in 2000. :_poke:

Assuming the guy appointed to the board at the behest of the select committee is just a board member, and this 5th Phoenix person is far more senior and culpable, there is only one name that I know who fits the bill, and I don't think the Kennedies would be too happy.

 

Phoenix 5???

Who are we talking about here??

Sounds like and Enid Blyton book!!

Can someone PM me a name, I cant work it out!!!

 

Some of you have missed the point and confused this thread.

Its simple...

The 5th member of the Phoenix team is the CURRENT (up until last Friday anyway) Chief Executive. In my opinion he has a lot to answer for.

John Moulton of Alchemy is a very clever man, his company is set up to RESCUE ailing business's, not rape them.. No ego trip, No bullying, certainly not incapable, never oblivious, and most of all trusts his people to do the job they are paid to do and lets them get on with it.

Not something that can be said for MORE than 1 of the P5 yes 5....

Time some serious questions were asked methinks.

 

What an inteesting thread.....one which I'll keep an eye on......:err:

 

Lets just be clear about something, I for one think the P4 are a lot less to blame than the 5th member....

Which I would have thought explained his continuing absence from the scene Steve.

The only bit that confuses me is this. Wouldn't he have reported to/been answerable to the P4 or was that not the arrangement?

Regards

Mike

 

Which I would have thought explained his continuing absence from the scene Steve.

The only bit that confuses me is this. Wouldn't he have reported to/been answerable to the P4 or was that not the arrangement?

Regards

Mike

Not sure about this as he also has shares in PVH, albeit a much smaller percentage that the other P4. I think he has 5% and the other P4 have over 23% each.

For those of you that don't know who the fifth person is, I'll give you a clue. He stars in "The Office".

 

From now on when you refer to MG Rover bad management of the business you should refer specifically to the P5.

Anyhowe I'm not sure whom you're referring to, but if I had to visualise them, the picture of David Brent comes into my head for some reason

Regards

John

 

Not sure about this as he also had/has shares in PVH, albeit a much smaller percentage that the other P4. I think he had/has 5% and the other P4 had/has over 23% each. .

OK, thanks for that. It would make a difference...........................

Regards

Mike

 

The only bit that confuses me is this. Wouldn't he have reported to/been answerable to the P4 or was that not the arrangement?

Technically, he would. But given that the P4 have been working all hours trying to complete the JV arrangements and other complex negotiations on behalf of the company... whilst the cats were away, I suspect the mouse was playing :irked:

John

 

He could have been sacked before this happened or her knew it was coming and decided to do a runner first.

 

Oh him! Wasn't even thinking about someone who has indeed been questioned over the past few days. But P4 brought him in and I wouldn't have thought he would have too much of a power base unless P4 let him. :eyes: Could be right, but please people, beware of scapegoats.


I thought the original poster meant John Hemmings! What's happened to him?

 

Technically, he would. But given that the P4 have been working all hours trying to complete the JV arrangements and other complex negotiations on behalf of the company... whilst the cats were away, I suspect the mouse was playing :irked:John

If that is the case then I do hope that at some point in the future he does get whatever he deserves

 

Howeever at the moment, I think life's a real 'beach' for the particular individual we are talking about

John

 

I heard a rumour a couple of times today that he's back...

Only been out there for about 3 weeks...