well if most of what you say is true then it doesnt look exactly promising. I did notice the other day that Appleyards the Rover dealer for Leeds for many years seems to have packed up which surprised me a bit. I gather it has been replaced by by another dealer in Leeds but i have no idea where it is.

Dont agree with you about the 45 but i have to admit you certainly dont see many new ones around here.

94000 I assume that this is the Global Total?

I also dont agree with you about Ford either. if they tucK them over which i dont think they would anyway all you would get is an MG badged roadster and possibly a saloon or coupe built at the focus plant in germany no doubt.

 

have to agree that from where i stand the 45 is a very very sad joke.

it was in the dunces section of desirable import vehicles in an Aussie car rag last month - first place in the 3 "horrors" listed in the "thank God we're not getting these" section.

described as "very bad British humour" the magazine opines that an excess of chromed plastic attempts to glitz up a dog. It goes on to say that it's "based on the 91 Japan only Domani making it a 3 generation old Civic" A quick check on the Japanese Civis we get in Australia and it is indeed 3 generations old. We have the same Civic as the UK now but we didn't before... we've had a replacement between the one that the 45 is sister car to and the current one.

now don't go flaming me for reporting what the Aussie equivalent of CAR or Autocar believes.


oh it did say "unlike it's entertaining MG cousin..........." for the ZS180 fans

 

Short answer;

NO MORE LIKELY THAN IN THE LAST 30 YEARS.......mg:

 

Well myself and the wife went shopping for a new car for her yesterday. We have a dog and so were looking primarily at ZR160's.

Saw one at a supermarket; 6 miles, unregistered £11.5k ! Wife was very interested until we sat inside and I have to say the interior quality has taken a big nosedive. We walked away.

Went to a MGR main dealer (in Derby), that was located off the main road and behind all the other dealers. No ZR160 available for test drive, but he did have a ZR120, BUT could we come back another day !

:cus:
The dealer seemed obssessed with closing a deal on a S/H 45 with an OAP. Talk about stereotypes ! BTW- no new 45's on show.

So, we go to the main dealer in Burton, very nice TF Sprint to sit in and a 75 Tourer, but NOBODY even asked what we were interested in.:cus: So we WALK away. BTW- no new 45's on show -again. Maybe in readyness for the talked about tweaks ?
Also all the wall poster info. was dated 1999, and footed with Rover - a B*W Group Company.....what...?

So the conclusion? We are keeping our money, keeping the 214SEi for the dog, and looking for a late model 200 Coupe, for the wife to use everyday.

MGR YOU LOST A NEW CAR SALE YESTERDAY.:err:

 

The reaction generated from articles in weekend papers never ceases to amaze me, there is no new news here whatsoever

MGR European sales falling - Yes sales in mainland europe are down 8%. MGR's dealer network has been ripped apart in many countries (especially Germany) by BMW offloading them and its going to take time to establish an even distribution network. Also, the MG brand has not yet been established as it has in UK and therefore sales have not responded as you would expect.

Cost cutting looks bad? What are you talking about? The only things I'm aware of a a rationalisation of door mirrors. Who cares?

No new models? 75 Tourer, ZR, ZS, ZT, ZT-T, TF, 75 Vanden Plas, come on now!

I know these are not all new models but what do you expect in two years? From various sources, MGR.org members know that the 45/ZS replacement is only 18 months away, the heavily revised 75 follows soon after. At the same time the X70/71 sportscars are launched and shortly after that a new 25. That means that everything in their entire range will be replaced in the next three years. Name another car maker that can claim that!

Reported Job Losses - I've been working in the manufacturing industry for twenty years and every single company I've worked for has planned job losses at one stage or another. It dosn't mean the companies are in trouble and it dosn't mean that the company is contracting. It just means that the company has plans for it's medium term future and is aware that costs always need to be cut.

Poor dealer network in the UK - I've seen no evidence of that on this forum. Sure some are better than others but thats true of every network. I currently own a BMW, before that an Omega and before that a 600 series. My favorite was the Rover dealer.

94k sales to August - This gives them 141k sales in 12 full months - yes it is way off 200k but the important aspect is making money. Its no good chasing volume if you have to sell at a loss. MGR has stated (often) that its losses this year will be 'tens of millions'. I think they should be given the benifit of doubt until we know if that is true. If it is, then we have a mature company with professional mangement able to accurately predict its future, if it isn't, then questions need to be asked.

 

if i was looking at a new car, then i wouldnt want a push sales man around and would much prefer to go and find them

if its a ZR160 your intrested in then best to be direct with them

" i am intresting in a ZR160. i am ready to complete the purcahse today. whats your best price?"

this should get thier attention

 

Are you sure that the 94k sales is not just UK sales? I seem to remember reading that UK sales up to April were in the order of 47K, so 94K by the end of Aug would seem about right.

Ps Does anyone know why the MGR dealer in Salisbury has become a joint Skoda/Merc dealer? Is that the end of MGR in Salisbury?

 

SMMT quote uk sales of 62,940 to end of August

 

nice post, Wendy!!! - nice to see a good redressing of the balance - there's the 25 facelift on the way too..dunno if u mentioned that or not!
there are some probs, but the main thing that gets to me is the build quality probs....and mebbe theyve listened to everyone about the 25..and will attempt to address the probs in the facelift? hope so.

Dan

ps - hope they dont drop the flags from the boots

 

FWIW I don't think Ford would be interested in buying MG-R, and neither do I think VW would be. They both already have as many brands as they can manage. Perhaps Peugeot or Renault could do with a sporty/upmarket brand, which they don't currently have?

Re: the redundancies, I believe these are through natural wastage, i.e. people taking voluntary redundancy and not being replaced, due to higher productivity levels - I don't think they're actually laying anyone off. Why would they when, by all accounts, they can't build the cars fast enough?

 

Can't say I know anything about the European dealer network, but surely you must have seen the announcements about MG-R re-entering other markets (NZ and Mexico), so they must have some ideas about Europe. Maybe they are concentrating on other (more profitable) markets?

If you look at the stats (see www.smmt.co.uk) you can draw many conclusions. Having invested in a ZT in April and being an MG-R fan I keep a regular eye on the sales figures and they seem to show consistent if not spectacular growth over the last twelve months. Quite an acheivement when you consider they were written off by most motor industry"experts".

Consider this:
1) Monthly sales growth (Aug2002 vs Aug2001)
Total UK market = +12.77%
MG-R sales = +14.41%

2) Yearly total growth (2002 vs 2001)
Total UK market = +7.31%
MG-R sales = +10.72%

Add to this all the negative publicity about MG-R and an overall drop in car prices I think it's not a bad performance.

The future - true the next 12 months will probably be make or break time for MG-R, but don't write them off just yet!

HughZT

 

FWIW I don't think Ford would be interested in buying MG-R, and neither do I think VW would be. They both already have as many brands as they can manage. Perhaps Peugeot or Renault could do with a sporty/upmarket brand, which they don't currently have?

Re: the redundancies, I believe these are through natural wastage, i.e. people taking voluntary redundancy and not being replaced, due to higher productivity levels - I don't think they're actually laying anyone off. Why would they when, by all accounts, they can't build the cars fast enough?

Personally I think you are wrong about Ford not being interested in purchasing MG-R. Short term you're probably right, but in the long term(once Ford get their own house in order) if MG-R successfully launch the new 45/ZS and re-enter the U.S. and Japan markets, I could definitely see Ford taking some sort of equity stake, perhaps even buying the whole sheebang! Please God! I sure hope Renault or Peugeot don't get their grubby mitts on MG-R. P.S. I don't think it would be Renault anyway, but I could forsee Peugeot forging some sort of alliance. If it has to be anyone then I want it to be Ford, then they could re-integrate MG-R with Land-Rover and Jaguar! Now..... if we can just get the MINI back!! Stephen

 

I'll bet the guys at Gaydon would like to see Ford buy MG-R!! Maybe, Steve Childs can ask someone like Geoff Upex or Richard Woolley their thoughts on this subject. Stephen

 

What's this obsession with Ford? I hate Ford, and INMHO if they did get MGR at some point, they would scrap Rover, and at best they would badge engineer Fords as MGs. It would be the end. Goodbye, finito.

Remember its Ford's domination of the UK market over the last 30 years that has helped reduce MGR to the size it is now.

I'd rather see MGR working in partnership with Peugeot or some other European maker than being bought out by Ford.

I think those people who think Ford would do MGR good are living a fantasy. They don't give a damned.

 

Totally agree about Ford being no good for mgr. An MG built on a focus platform in germany would be about yer lot

 

I can't believe what I'm reading here! You downbeat lot! (Not all of you...)

 

It is the part which MGR joins the PAG interests me. But how about a British union! Aston Martin, Land Rover and Jaguar...
I am not that keen of Ford, but I dont hate them neither.

 

I dunno about Ford - I really can't see Rover existing alongside Jaguar, even a new PAG Jaguar - theres just too much bad history between them.

As for Renault, well, once Vel Satis and Avantime have bombed they won't have a luxury car presence (unless Nissan start brining Infinities from the States), and they do have some stunning toys in the Laguna and Vel Satis

 

Keep the faith people!

I understand that MGR is on the edge of breaking even. Now if it can break even at this level of sales - just think what lies ahead in a few years time for those lucky Phoenix Venture Holdings shareholders!!

MGR has been on the edge of bankruptcy since it gained independence from B*W and for the foreseeable future it always will be. Quite simply, you don't sell newspapers by writing stories along the lines of 'Everyone very happy at Longbridge'.

John

 

Can't say I know anything about the European dealer network, but surely you must have seen the announcements about MG-R re-entering other markets (NZ and Mexico), so they must have some ideas about Europe. Maybe they are concentrating on other (more profitable) markets?

I think there may be something in that. MG-R probably make next to no profit on their European sales. So why should they expend time, money, and management effort on maintaining European market share, for not a lot of gain at the end of the day, when that same time, money and management effort can be used to go back into more profitable markets where the Rover brand is stronger and can command a higher margin, such as Australia, Mexico, Japan, etc?

Also, remember that they make most of their profits on their sales in the UK at present, and since those sales are up, this should greatly offset the losses being incurred in Europe right now. The strong UK market is helping MG-R more than any other car maker, long may it continue.

 

MGR future

No one seems to have mentioned the deal with China Brilliance.
This will give MGR a toe hold in the [potentially] biggest market in the world.Share development costs ,give MGR dealers more models to sell etc.Plus I assume the Chinese will be able to make components at a fraction of the cost.

I for one have faith in MGR.

Tariq

 

One more point. Yes, MG-R's European sales have fallen sharply...but to put this into context, so have most other manufacturers'. Fiat's sales are down 10%, and Renault's are down 23%! And that includes the UK market.

 

I think there may be something in that. MG-R probably make next to no profit on their European sales. So why should they expend time, money, and management effort on maintaining European market share, for not a lot of gain at the end of the day, when that same time, money and management effort can be used to go back into more profitable markets where the Rover brand is stronger and can command a higher margin, such as Australia, Mexico, Japan, etc?

Rover may have command a higher margin in places like Australia but one big issue is preventing MGR from profiting from it. Put simply the UK probably couldn't get worse as an export market - the strength of sterling is killing any chance of profits for UK exporters. If the value of sterling goes up against other currencies then MGR has to sell them at a lower price just to keep the other currency price level.... I doubt MGR makes much at all on the cars they sell in the Asia/Pacific region since our currencies are basket cases and sterling is pretty much the strongest currency worldwide.

Contrast this with the sh*tloads the BMW is dragging in from selling their cars here - the Euro and Aussie dollar aren't far off 1 for 1, while it's 3 for 1 for sterling.

I reckon if the UK joined the EU monetary union current Euro exporters would see earnings rduced but MGR would see them take a massive upwards hike. any economists want to analyse my hypothesis?

 

The way I see it, no other manufacturer will want to buy MGR. If they did, they would have bought them 2 years ago for ten quid. The only way forward for MGR is alone, and setting up strategic partnerships along the way.
I think the management have it right. They are pursuing profit ahead of volume. If this means reducing staff (hopefully temporarily) then so be it. They are steadily overhauling their models, but you cant do that in 5 minutes. They are also expanding into new markets (Australia, NZ, Mexico). They are trying to sort out dealer networks in Europe. They probably wont be able to build a comprehensive dealer network in some markets until the new models are in place.
The things they must address with absolute priority are BUILD QUALITY and SPARE PARTS SUPPORT. Without these things the dealers wont want to touch them and all will be for nought. In Australia many people are prepared to give MGR a fair go. But any hint of quality problems and / or non-availability of parts and buyers will stay away in droves.
BTW anybody know what's happening with China Brilliance?

 

Sorry to rain on the Ford parade, but anyone looking at how Jag plans are being slashed and cut back would know Rover would never make it in PAG. With the right joint deals MG Rover can make it. Just look at the problems GM and even Ford are having at the moment in Europe, it kinda puts it in perspective. The guys are doing well!