im not sure if i even understand the question tbh:eyes:

 

bascially nick, some ppl haev been asking about making the non vvc 1.8L 135 tf into a vvc 160. wjhat parts are needed to make it a vvc engine.


now perry wants to know if the same process is possible with a 1.6 engine.
which on the basis of this engine i am not sure!!
i would imagine it is possible but wouldnt want to try and explain why through text.

hopefully someone can come along and either prove me riht or wrong, but more importantly explain why!!

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MEMS, engine bay loom, VVC head and associated items (cams, VVC mechanism etc), New rev counter (higher red line), VVC inlet plenum and manifold (not sure if these last two are necessary). Miscellanious anciliery items (stretch bolts, cam belt (maybe?) etc).

And i think that's about it. If you are taking the head off you should also think about the steel dowells (if not already present) and you need to replace the gasket anyway, so go for an uprated one.

1.8 head is the same as the 1.6 and the 1.4 (this is why there are such big gains from gas flowing them). So a 1.8 VVC head *should* fit on a 1.6 block. I suspect the gains will be very good indeed and may even blow away a 1.8 135 MPi - at a guess, if you start with a 115PS engine, you may see gains up to around 140PS (+25PS, same as 1.8 MPi to 1.8 VVC), but with an advantage in torque (short stroke engine) and maybe reliability too.

Could probably fit the VVC head to the 1.4 block too...

 

Hey Andrew thanx for the excellent analysis once again!!!

MEMS, engine bay loom, VVC head and associated items (cams, VVC mechanism etc), New rev counter (higher red line), VVC inlet plenum and manifold (not sure if these last two are necessary). Miscellanious anciliery items (stretch bolts, cam belt (maybe?) etc).

These are standard chnages to the 1.8 to vvc upgrade too?

1.8 head is the same as the 1.6 and the 1.4 (this is why there are such big gains from gas flowing them). So a 1.8 VVC head *should* fit on a 1.6 block. I suspect the gains will be very good indeed and may even blow away a 1.8 135 MPi - at a guess, if you start with a 115PS engine, you may see gains up to around 140PS (+25PS, same as 1.8 MPi to 1.8 VVC), but with an advantage in torque (short stroke engine) and maybe reliability too.
Could probably fit the VVC head to the 1.4 block too...

you mean here dis-advantage in torque? with respect to the upgrade from a 1.8 right? and reliability?

 

Torque = Maybe

Having trouble thinking it through at the mo, can't decide if the bigger bang from a 1.8 capacity engine would provide more torque, than the same surface area, but less travel perspective of the 1.6 shorter stroke engine.

Reliability = No

Reliability gains are theoretical, but in theory - head off = new (uprated) gasket + steel dowels. Also, shorter stroke on the piston = less wear.

 

I understood the difference was only the con rods ie just the lenght of stroke which takes it from 115 to 135. However I have been know to be wrong
MikeS

 

So what the estimated cost would be for this modification???

 

Considerably less than selling it and buying a 1.8 engined car. :s2h:

 

MEMS, engine bay loom, VVC head and associated items (cams, VVC mechanism etc), New rev counter (higher red line), VVC inlet plenum and manifold (not sure if these last two are necessary). Miscellanious anciliery items (stretch bolts, cam belt (maybe?) etc).

If you go into details like swapping the rev counter, you'll need to add a new throttle body as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the 115 has the 48mm version.

Perry: is this just out of interest or is that LE80th of yours a 1.6 ?

 

If you go into details like swapping the rev counter, you'll need to add a new throttle body as well.

No i wouldnt care about the details..

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the 115 has the 48mm version.

Does it?????

Perry: is this just out of interest or is that LE80th of yours a 1.6 ?

It is 1.6

 

....It is 1.6

Eeermmm, Perry, according to the brochure I have for the 80th LE, there are no 1.6 options, only 1.8

 

Eeermmm, Perry, according to the brochure I have for the 80th LE, there are no 1.6 options, only 1.8

I wish you were right Pete, cause I would have bought the 135 at 116 price but maybe that is true only for the UK as I know....

 

I wish you were right Pete, cause I would have bought the 135 at 116 price but maybe that is true only for the UK as I know....

Yep, could have been just for UK market Perry.

 

Following on from what Andy says, you could probably run a 1600 VVC at higher RPM than the 1800 VVC as the max piston speed would be slower at a given RPM.

Matt.

 

This is very interesting...

 

Following on from what Andy says, you could probably run a 1600 VVC at higher RPM than the 1800 VVC as the max piston speed would be slower at a given RPM.
Matt.

Sorry for the questions that may sound obvious to you guys but I lack that in depth knowledge of car-engineering...

So the difference between the 1.6 and the 1.8 in plain english is that the piston in the later drives a longer distance so that it creates the 1,800 cc volume of air/fuel mix?

So going from 1,600 to 1,800 non-vvc is rather simple to do?

 

Sorry for the questions that may sound obvious to you guys but I lack that in depth knowledge of car-engineering...

So the difference between the 1.6 and the 1.8 in plain english is that the piston in the later drives a longer distance so that it creates the 1,800 cc volume of air/fuel mix?

So going from 1,600 to 1,800 non-vvc is rather simple to do?

Sorry for the delay.

Yes, the mechanical difference between 1600 and 1800 is the stroke, or the distance the piston travels from the top down the chamber.

The bore is the same.

 

Sorry for the delay.
Yes, the mechanical difference between 1600 and 1800 is the stroke, or the distance the piston travels from the top down the chamber.
The bore is the same.

Thanks Matt!!!
So how much would a mod like this cost???

 

Perry,

It is a bit of a minefield:

The liners are the same, as are all castings.

I am not sure whether or not they are the same pistons.

I am not sure whether or not it uses the same crank and different rods or a different crank and different rods, or just a different crank to get the extra stroke.

Or perhaps it just has different pistons. . . . .

I would anticipate something like this would take 2 days or maybe less for a reasonable mechanic. Would need someone who understands the K series.

Also, would need an update to the engine management. I am pretty sure everything is the same in terms of sensors, injectors, etc, but the ECU may be different. Or maybe it is all the same and the ECU simply runs a different programme which could be loaded on.

I am sure someone else will know a bit more and confirm, at the same time, it would be worth getting the head gas-flowed.

At the end of all that you should have around 160 BHP.

I am not sure if it uses the PG1 gearbox or not. If it uses the smaller box, this may not be able to cope with the power, same for brakes.

HTH.

Matt.

 

IIRC the pistons would be the same. However the con rods and crank are different.

 

Perry,

It is a bit of a minefield:

The liners are the same, as are all castings.

I am not sure whether or not they are the same pistons.

I am not sure whether or not it uses the same crank and different rods or a different crank and different rods, or just a different crank to get the extra stroke.

Or perhaps it just has different pistons. . . . .

I would anticipate something like this would take 2 days or maybe less for a reasonable mechanic. Would need someone who understands the K series.

Also, would need an update to the engine management. I am pretty sure everything is the same in terms of sensors, injectors, etc, but the ECU may be different. Or maybe it is all the same and the ECU simply runs a different programme which could be loaded on.

I am sure someone else will know a bit more and confirm, at the same time, it would be worth getting the head gas-flowed.

At the end of all that you should have around 160 BHP.

I am not sure if it uses the PG1 gearbox or not. If it uses the smaller box, this may not be able to cope with the power, same for brakes.

HTH.

Matt.

Brakes and gearbox are from the 160...

 

Perry,

Did you find out how much this mod would cost? Sounds an interesting little project.

 

No I did not........you need the VVC head, wiring and the VVC ECU....

 

Very interesting...I might look into this in the future....

I was considering swapping my 115 for a 135 or 160, but love her so much I've decided to keep her....but a few mods won't go amiss.

I will keep you posted if I find anything out.

 

In theory, 1.6 VVC would be better for high revving applications due to it's shorter stroke.

For anyones info, the base is 1400, the 1600 is bored, the 1800 is bored and stroked.

 

If you want a 1.8 then it would be cheaper to buy one then convert a 1.6, as not only would you have the conversion costs but also you could end up paying more to insure the car then a factory 1.8 and then come resale time you may take an even bigger hit.

 

Thanks Chris, I already know this much as I've asked the question about mods to my 115 before in other threads...just that Perry's question got me thinking again....you know, the what if scenario.....

 

Always good to know these things, but I certainly agree that you'd be better off buying a 1.8 rather than convering a 1.6