I certainly hope not, In an article I read the TGWU guy didnt think that was the case, however I guess you could see a situation where their new smaller van which appears to be on the backburner at the moment is perhaps made in Russia rather than the UK, and frankly i think you have to worry about the very long term. But i guess we need to wait and see exactly what the deal is

 

Listening to the business news on the BBC this morning I don't think this is the case.

I am surprised however that no-one seems to have drawn the parallels between this and the original Maxus project which also envisaged production in Poland by Daewoo.

Substitute Poland with Russia and the only difference is that design and development is concentrated in the UK.

I also see the old models as being attractive for Russia not least as they are regularly described as 'tough as old boots' and therefore must be appealing to those areas which can't cope with the ubiqutous MB Sprinter let alone the Maxus.

The Russian demand also bodes well for the need to develop a 'heavy duty' RWD version of the Maxus - something regularly mentioned in these forums.

Also in view of the growth of the Russian market this could be very good for the Washwood Heath Factory.

 

And the Birmingham Post says...

LDV will stay in city, says Oleg

Jun 23 2006, By John Cranage, Automotive Correspondent

The man who could end up running Birmingham vanm aker LDV yesterday promised the business will remain in the city.

Russian automotive group GAZ, part of the giant RusProm Avto group owned by Moscow-based billionaire Oleg Deripaska, is talking to LDV's American owner about taking over the company.

GAZ president Erik Eberhardson yesterday moved to allay fears that production of LDV's sole model, the Maxus, could be moved abroad.

He said in a prepared statement: "Whilst discussions regarding the acquisition of LDV are ongoing, I would like to make it clear that if agreement is reached we will not 'lift and shift' the operation.

"Manufacturing will continue in Birmingham."

An announcement of a deal had been expected earlier in the week, but The Birmingham Post now understands that discussions between GAZ and LDV's owner, Sun European Partners, are in fact still at a comparatively early stage.

Both companies stressed that there is no certainty that the talks will result in a takeover by GAZ.

Sun European, an offshoot of Florida-based private equity group Sun Capital Partners, bought LDV out of administration in December last year.

The company collapsed after running into cashflow problems caused by the higher manfacturing costs of the Maxus, its first all-new model since it was rescued after the failure of the old Anglo-Dutch Leyland DAF truck and van group in 1993.

Responding to Mr Eberhardson's statement yesterday, Birmingham Chamber of Commerce and Industry spokesman John Lamb said: "It is excellent news. Anything that preserves jobs is welcome, whoever takes LDV over."

Regional development agency Advantage West Midlands was yesterday watching the negotiations from the sidelines.

"We will be seeking to meet any new owner of LDV to see what help and support we might be able to give," an AWM spokesman said. "We recognise the important of LDV although we remain unclear about the exact situation."

 

Makes you wonder what's happened to the possibility of Sun European (LDV)still buying Dennis-Eagle as rumoured recently.
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/19-05-06_3
I thought that was a good idea, but they'll probably just get snapped up by the forrin competition as usual...

 

There are some interesting LDV-MGR details in Keith's news update at http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/news0606f.htm :

A former insider told austin-rover.co.uk: "LDV was interested in selling vans through the MGR network in Europe, and needed dealer expansion for the forthcoming Maxus (I went along to Washwood Heath to look at prototypes and to discuss the LDV plans for the new model). "At that time we were already assessing an arrangement with Gaz to sell their Transit lookalike van range (remember Concordski, then this was Transitski). It would go through the UK and European MGR network. Two vans were supplied to MGR for assessment, and as I recall one went to MGR in Spain.
"This was the main part of a package proposed by MVI, the Tata and Lada importers. The other bit was selling Tata SUVs and pickups through European MGR dealers. And the man with the MVI plan was Mike Kimberley who is now back at Lotus (see Autocar this week). This was the start of the link with Tata that resulted in MGR talking direct to Tata, and the Indica being sold as the CityRover.

I wonder how the Transitski would have been branded if it had been sold through MGR dealers?

Perhaps there is still a possibility of some tie-up between a new, more internationally focused LDV, and Nanjing's remnants of the MGR dealer network throughout Europe?

 

So what exactly have these Sun Capital people brought to LDV??

http://www.suncappart.com/images/Sun_Capital_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I smell a bit of a rat about the LDV administration last December....all happened one day and was sorted on the same day, with no news about what happened to workers contracts, terms and conditions and pensions.

And now they want to offload it only 6 months later??...........

Also, here's a quote from that article about LDV buying Dennis-Eagle:

It is believed that trade buyers such as specialist vehicle manufacturer LDV could be interested in buying Dennis Eagle. The company was acquired by ABN Amro Capital in 2004 for £51m from rival private equity firm Bridgepoint. It acquired Dennis Eagle from Mayflower Corporation in 1999.

Poor old Dennis-Eagle seems to have been kicked around by various private equity/investment firms for the last few years, no doubt all of them making a quick buck at the expense of the business.....

 

I think the rise of these private equity firms in recent years is something which deserves closer scrutiny. These faceless groups are accountable to nobody, yet they own huge swathes of our industry and infrastructure, including much which was once in public hands, e.g. AB Ports.

 

I think the rise of these private equity firms in recent years is something which deserves closer scrutiny. These faceless groups are accountable to nobody, yet they own huge swathes of our industry and infrastructure, including much which was once in public hands, e.g. AB Ports.

In fairness, if Sun hadn't have bought LDV, right now the LDV plant would be every bit as busy as Longbridge :err:

John

 

In fairness, if Sun hadn't have bought LDV, right now the LDV plant would be every bit as busy as Longbridge :err:

John

Too true! British Manufacturing is DEAD

 

In fairness, if Sun hadn't have bought LDV, right now the LDV plant would be every bit as busy as Longbridge :err:

John

Point taken, but I do wonder about the long-term effect of so much property passing into private equity hands. As I understand it, these groups have no shareholders so are accountable to nobody but themselves.

 

Point taken, but I do wonder about the long-term effect of so much property passing into private equity hands. As I understand it, these groups have no shareholders so are accountable to nobody but themselves.

They are looking to get as much value as possible as quickly as possible by selling on the business but it is worth noting that this can only be done with a strong business.

 

Russian companies have completely failed to compete with the onslaught of western designed cars and trucks except were they are suitable for local conditions. By all accounts a Lada is a safer bet in Sibseria than an overspecced Merc as all you need is a hammer to keep it going in -40c.

LDV is simply to small and needs volume, but its design expertise is plain to see. Seems GAZ could get top notch designs and an engineering team plus a foothold in Western Europe as well as a competitive product for the East which it can knock out in volume.

LDV was always going to sold off, but not maybe as quickly as this. May turn out to be a turning point in the companies fortunes: it needs a big daddy for the future.

 

They build other Vans/Trucks under lience.........On Bloomberg tonight is the tale that they intend to build "Our" van in the former USSR.

One day they credit boom will end, building work will stop and than we see that we have...................N O T H I N G !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mega

 

They build other Vans/Trucks under lience.........On Bloomberg tonight is the tale that they intend to build "Our" van in the former USSR.

One day they credit boom will end, building work will stop and than we see that we have...................N O T H I N G !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mega

Pilot/Convoy or the Maxus?

 

Maxus. They've offered £8million for the license, -which seems cheap to me, but if Sun won't play ball there'a a six week window in which they might decide to buy the whole company.

Meanwhile, according to the Birmingham Post's website this morning, RusProm is said to have offered Sun around £8million for the rights to build LDV vans---but the offer is also believed to include what the Birmingham Post describes as a six-week 'exclusivity period' during which time RusProm could conduct a due-diligence exercise and ultimately make a bid for whole kit and kaboodle…...by the end of July all should become clear.
©Transport News Network Ltd.

 

Maxus. They've offered £8million for the license, -which seems cheap to me, but if Sun won't play ball there'a a six week window in which they might decide to buy the whole company.

£8m is peanut, especially for a new design like Maxus!

 

£8m is peanut, especially for a new design like Maxus!

Well given it would probably cost around £500m to develop a new van I believe thats what the Maxus cost then that seems ridiculusly cheap to me as well.

Oops but then I forgot its a UK based company, where its the great UK manufacturing closing down sale, last few years remaining, everything must go

 

they buying a license.... not the the IP.

67 million bought SAIC the entire IP for the 75 and more.

and when you're broke and hocking the family silver you can't afford to wait for a buyer prepared to pay the most - you take what you can get.

 

And there's bound to be a royalty paid to LDV for each van made in Russia, on top of anything paid for the license to build them.

 

I think in many areas it's still how you portrayed it Charles - but there are others where things are picking up fast. Russia wasn't formerly known as the bread basket of Europe for nothing - with that many people and resources they have the potential to be a real global power in economic terms, even if they're on their knees now.

Just like with India and China I think a lot of old world economies should be taking notice now, before it's too late.

 

You're right. Russia has some of the world's largest known reserves of oil, gas and other minerals. The place is vast. At some stage, in the not too distant future, I can see a need for European nations to come to some arrangements with Russia to secure our sources of oil and other minerals.

Been discusing this for years - it's simply a matter of time for them ... that's all.

There are those already now and will be many more who look to those vast resources with covetous eyes as their own resources are rapidly depleting... then watch out for fireworks.

The way things are progressing, could simply be a matter of time before 'squabbles' over that most important resource water develope into a more serious scenario ... for us all.

Just like with India and China I think a lot of old world economies should be taking notice now, before it's too late.

Hands up those Nations who are preparing for such contingencies now.... Hmmm.
.

 

...
You're right. Russia has some of the world's largest known reserves of oil, gas and other minerals. The place is vast. At some stage, in the not too distant future, I can see a need for European nations to come to some arrangements with Russia to secure our sources of oil and other minerals.

It's already happening:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4576534.stm

 

It's been nearly 3 years since I was last in Russia but I doubt things have changed that much. Basically, there are two Russias: Moscow and one outside the ring-road. There is a lot of wealth in Russia but is concentrated in a very small number of hands and a small number of areas. In the rural areas it is still very poor with most literally living hand to mouth.

I have my doubts that much wealth has filtered down to the poor areas as there is neither any incentive or anything in Russian culture which encourages people to do so. There is not, nor has there ever really been, any basic feeling for the common good or society in general in Russia - the culture is and always has been everyone for themselves.

 

The gas issue is causing more upsets than over or under-supply. The Polish are very worried about the gas pipeline under the Baltic from Russia to Germany, which runs right north of Poland.

There is no doubt that Russia is using gas and oil as a political weapon to maintain some sort of sphere of influence both in Eastern Europe and former Soviet Republics (most notably the Ukraine).

In some ways it's nothing new - gas and oil pipelines have always been a political issue all over the world.

A country as vast and with such minerals as Russia will always have that power but I'm far from convinced they are anywhere near becoming a "normal" free market democracy. The Russian method is generally to bully, both on an individual basis within the country and on the international stage, and it was pretty much the same during the Tsars and the communist era.