Yes and I think one of their drivers has screwed things up too.

 

A t f ! :lol:

 

James Allen has some interesting thoughts on Red Bull and Ferrari's performance. It does seem as though the wing test changes are having some effect:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

 

No is the answer, Ferrari and Red Bull are still the fastest cars. Spa was as usual very chaotic, the qualifying was mahem, the race was crazy, the winners were the only ones who stayed away from the drama. It was anybody's race in any car.

 

Hmmm,they are a long way from being properly competitive.....and Alonso was appalling again.He is unable to channel his anger unlike some of the best drivers/champs in the past and goes to rat **** when the chips are down.

 

Ferrari didn't look very competitive with Red Bull during qualifying or in the race, even if you just go on Massa's race pace alone. Interesting that Ferrari were surprised by the speed of the Mclaren but one look at the RBR and Ferrari wings may explain Mclarens reversal of fortunes. That and the fact they now have the EBD working properly.

 

If Ferrari don't win anything in F1 this year the car will take the blame, all of a sudden it will become the scapegoat. The phrase a "dog of a car springs to mind"
However that fact that they seem to have two number two drivers seems to be showing now, after Spa.
I guess we will see either way at Monza, Ferrari usually put on a good show at Monza.

 

If Ferrari don't win anything in F1 this year the car will take the blame, all of a sudden it will become the scapegoat. The phrase a "dog of a car springs to mind"
However that fact that they seem to have two number two drivers seems to be showing now, after Spa.
I guess we will see either way at Monza, Ferrari usually put on a good show at Monza.

So long as they are attending I don't care how well/crap they do . I have paid good money to be at Monza.

 

I'm looking forward to Monza but the really interesting race could be the one after that. Will RBR and Ferrari still be faster than the Mclaren or will the FIA scruteneering of the floors and wings take their toll?

I know Christian Horner has flatly denied that any changes were made to their wing design (and I think Ferrari have said the same thing) but the wings on both cars weren't moving as much and RBR sent some composite material experts along to Spa from HQ to seemingly check what was happening with the wing.

So if the wings and floors are changed then it could have a significant bearing on the championship and whilst Ferrari and RBR are playing with the wings and floors I guess Mclaren will be developing something new.

 

There are 150 points left for the rest of the season. The title fight is as even as it could be. Ferrari and Red Bull have the fastest cars lets not kid ourselves over a hectic Spa just because Mclaren won. And yes, Monza is a high speed circuit and that will suit the F-duct very well, and we all know who has the best functioning F-duct. After Monza the rest of the circuits will show up who has been bluffing their way and who really has the car under their feet. Be patient Mclaren fans, Ferrari and RBR will show you whose boss by the end of the year

 

I understand where your coming from but the big unknown is how the wing and floor tests have changed the aerodynamic packages of both the RBR and the Ferrari. Ferrari's qualifying pace was very odd on Saturday. If it happens again at Monza then I suspect something's up because the Ferrari was pretty good on tracks with long straights.... but we shall see.

 

I hardly think that with Hamilton being in the lead of the championship at times before Spa and again after it, along with Button being high up the ranks that McLaren are uncompetitive. Ferrari have slightly lost their edge they had in the previous races however but again not mightily so.

 

So Mclaren have a poor car and a great driver in Lewis, and Ferrari have a great car and a poor driver in Alonso?

To be honest I think the Mclaren isn't as far behind as some people think it is. Especially now the new wing and flexi floor tests are coming into play. I also think that the Exhaust Blown Diffuser and F-duct are now both working really well. That said I think the Mclaren is off the pace and it's only the brilliance of Hamilton and the consistency of Button that's made up for it.

As for Ferrari I will wait and see but it strikes me as odd that the car is so up and down with nothing in between. Which makes me question the consistency of the drivers....

 

.....That said I think the Mclaren is off the pace and it's only the brilliance of Hamilton.....

Do you actually have this as a poster on your wall?

:dddc:

 

The free practices on Friday saw Ferrari 'dominating'. They made a few strategic errors on Saturday and Sunday along with a little bad luck with Rubens clashing with Alonso.

McLaren have upped their game though.

 

Watching all the P1 - 2 - 3 on Ch 301 over the past few days ~ had a few small bets on Qualifying based purely on those observations and 'gut' feelings.

Transactions (GBP)
Date/Time Bet Details (Click selection for full details) Stake Return

Qualifying Driver match bets :~

11/09/2010 12:36:34 Mark Webber @ 10/3, £4.50 Single 4.50 19.50

11/09/2010 12:21:27 Jenson Button @ 11/4, £20.00 Single 20.00 75.00

Fastest Qualifier :~

11/09/2010 12:14:07 Jenson Button @ 6/1, £6.65 EW Single 13.30 14.63
Total 37.80 109.13

Then spotted both Button and Alonso at slightly better odds elsewhere so :~

Date / Time Note Transaction Amount

11 Sep 10 / 14:10 Bet Winnings Italian Grand Prix - Fastest Qualifier – Fernando Alonso @ 5/1 + £100.00

11 Sep 10 / 14:08 Bet Winnings Lewis Hamilton v Jenson Button – Jenson Button @ 3/1 + £40.00

They finished 1st and 2nd in Qualifying ~ how about that.

A near 100% correct forecast for small stakes ~ typical! ~ win some ~ sometimes...

I shall play some of that winnings up on a Jenson win tomorrow ~ he'll be much better odds than the Spaniard on pole ... and is surely due a change of luck during the race .... as long as Vettel keeps away and his team do not leave blanks in the radiator inlets .... ....we shall see.
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Watching all the P1 - 2 - 3 on Ch 301 over the past few days ~ had a few small bets on Qualifying based purely on those observations and 'gut' feelings.

Transactions (GBP)
Date/Time Bet Details (Click selection for full details) Stake Return

Qualifying Driver match bets :~

11/09/2010 12:36:34 Mark Webber @ 10/3, £4.50 Single 4.50 19.50

11/09/2010 12:21:27 Jenson Button @ 11/4, £20.00 Single 20.00 75.00

Fastest Qualifier :~

11/09/2010 12:14:07 Jenson Button @ 6/1, £6.65 EW Single 13.30 14.63
Total 37.80 109.13

Then spotted both Button and Alonso at slightly better odds elsewhere so :~

Date / Time Note Transaction Amount

11 Sep 10 / 14:10 Bet Winnings Italian Grand Prix - Fastest Qualifier – Fernando Alonso @ 5/1 + £100.00

11 Sep 10 / 14:08 Bet Winnings Lewis Hamilton v Jenson Button – Jenson Button @ 3/1 + £40.00

They finished 1st and 2nd in Qualifying ~ how about that.

A near 100% correct forecast for small stakes ~ typical! ~ win some ~ sometimes...

I shall play some of that winnings up on a Jenson win tomorrow ~ he'll be much better odds than the Spaniard on pole ... and is surely due a change of luck during the race .... as long as Vettel keeps away and his team do not leave blanks in the radiator inlets .... ....we shall see.
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should setup the MGJohn betting tips forum. You seem to be very good a getting it right. Me on the other hand I have to limit myself to small stakes because I am terrible.