My Mk3 has a tapping noise when I start it up for about the first 10 minutes or so... I've been informed by the garage that it's just the tappits and need to warm up or something and then they stop making the noise...

I don't know if this is anyhting to do with what you're experiencing...

 

I think i am right in saying, that pretty much all MGRovers do that. The ZR has always done it. It knocks for around 5 seconds when doing a cold start, then disappears! This is what should happen.

My problem, goes after a few seconds, but comes back once up to optimum temp, and sitting at idle!

 

That is indeed odd... I can't say I've experienced that on my car so far... I wish I had a solution for you or at least some idea of what it could be

 

firstly, dont dis the 10yr old fiesta:lol: (i've still got one!!)

ive had problems with my K too.

Ive had a knocking noise from the bottom end before which really scared me as you can all imagine what that could be, after using everyday and doing 75 miles init, this has dissapered.

secondly, are you sure it's not the injectors working? Escorts with MPI are exactly the same and have a tappy sound from the injectors, this is normal.

I've also had tappet noise and did post a worried thread on here but it has now gone through brilliant advice!

TBH, you shouldnt be dealing with this tapping noise, if your not happy, take it to Rover. I've never heard of 'leaving it a couple of days' before. Oil is oil and it will reach the parts that it needs to go to! keep complaining. is the car in warrenty?

Ben.

 

K Series engines are noisy but for it to "suddenly" appear is a bit worrying.

Type of oil makes a big difference, some of the people with VVC's on here have noticed different brands makes a big difference.

If you aint happy send it back to them and tell them your concerns and take some decent oil with you and get them to change it.

 

I thought the fact that it suddenly appeared was worrying too!
The car is under warranty. it's only 1 year old and has done 10.7k.
i changed the oil when i got it back. I put some nice new Magnatec in it, and still got the tap, tap, tap.

With regards to the oil circulating around the engine, i too thought it odd for her to say that as thats what the oil pump is for! I would give it a run, which i did, and it still made no difference.

Oooooh, not dishing Fiesta's :bgrin: :bgrin: :bgrin:

well 10 year old ones anyway!!!

 

good comeback on the fiesta's!!

the only thing i can say is take the car back.
I wouldnt let them know that you have put fresh oil in. It will give them an excuse to argue. Just say you picked it up and the noise just began after their handy work.

let us know what they say!

 

It is true that injectors can get noisy but I would suggest that the garage used cheap oil and should of flushed the engine!!!!
I always flush my engine at every oil change with full engine flush not the additive because on the k and t series engines the oil ways in the head are very fine and prone to blockage so flush your engine then use good quality oil like magnatex that should helps !!!

 

Not injectors! I'm 99% sure about that.

On the bill, it said they used castrol magnatec, but the women behind the counter said it was normal GTX. I changed it anyway! It's now got a good quality castrol magnatec in it!
I won't mention that i changed it!


I will let you know how i get on!

I actually thought, using a flushing substance would wash away the protective layer around the engine. EG, in the cylinder liners etc etc. I've heard this can cause damage. Maybe they used that when it was serviced which is why it is rattling now???

I will go down there after work, and will let you all know tomorrow.

 

My new ZS 120 is as quiet as a mouse when i first start it up but when its up to temp theres a rattly tapping noise is this normal ?

 

I’ve been flushing out my 620ti for 4 years and my wife’s metro gti and never had a problem!!!! But I heard of folks that say flushing is bad but in my experience being in the motor trade for 15 years this only effects high mileage cars which removes the carbon ring that builds up at the top of the cylinder bore causing it to smoke for a while!!!!!
So I would definitely flush your car out and not expect any problems at all!!!
I'd say the garage didn't flush it because the extra time and expense they probly just used cheap oil!!!!
It probly just needs flushing anyway to clear the carbon deposits from the cam followers and oil ways in the head!!!!!

 

How many miles did your car cover whilst in for service?

I reckon it was ragged on road test :doh:

 

Here's a theory.

At the service, the garage drained the oil, and replaced the filter, theoretically when hot. Mechanic replaces oil filter, which is empty, refills with oil and starts car. Car idles, and ever so slowly the oil filter fills with oil, then pressure builds, and eventually is enough to reach the top of the engine. In the meantime, the top of the engine is starved of oil, causing tappets to be noisy, and possibly causing some other top end damage.

Get it back to the dealers!

The best way to avoid this for all you happy DIYers is to slowly fill the new oil filter (it takes time), before you fit it to the engine. That way running dry is minimised. There is a knack to fittiing a full filter to the engine without it going up your arm or down the drive . . . . It is however better than a top end rebuild.

 

How the hell can you fill a filter which sits on it's side on an engine!????

 

yup mine taps too, and now rattles a tiny bit at very low revs, that may just be the engine struggling though.

i have a nasty squeek coming from somewhere too, i think it may be something to do with the steering, it started that same time that a steering hose started leaking

by the way mine is a 214si

 

would it be ok to flush my engine at 110 thousand miles
1.4 16v k series
mk2 200

cheers

 

I wouldn't

 

CJZR105+, does the tapping only come in at 1700 rpm and stay throughout the rev range??????, if so then i will be very interested to hear what the dealers say about it as mine has the EXACT same problem, i also use magnatec and only ever use rover filters (from the dealers anyway).

cheers simon

 

would it be ok to flush my engine at 110 thousand miles

My 214 has 120K on it and I always flush when changing the oil with no problems.
Cant say i've ever filled an oil filter before fitting it.

 

This is a very interesting thread as far as i'm concerned. Possibly a common problem /fault?
I have a 2003 ZR 105 with 1.4 k engine.

Since new I've had numerous probs. It has been at dealers more time than i've had it since new (July 03)
Currently stands at 10k miles.
As well as having numerous things replaced including both front door cards, probs. with sticking locks, sqweaks galore from dash and doors and boot area.

The major problem i had was a rattle from the engine, tappety sort of noise. particularly noticable at 1700 revs. Dealer had car numerous times before diagnosing problem as follows;
They stated that a couple of the valve stem oil seals were causing the problem, resulting in occasional restricted flow of oil into the valve!.

They replaced all 16 seals, along with 4 of the lifters. Replaced with new oil and filter. I was assured that no tappets or other damage was present.

Appeared ok for a while, although another type of rattle has now apeared, again, tappetty type. Particulary noticable around 17-2000 revs, when taking your foot off the pedal and the revs dropping. I am again waiting to get booked in for this to be sorted, as well as the entire seat covers to be replaced, due a fault with the leather. Monaco seats with yellow inserts. They have black coming through them somehow!

Although the noise level is expectd to be higher than previous R 200's, due to bonnet lining beings absent in the ZR, no metal type rattling should be present. I had it on my previous 214si, which was diagnosed at 50k with worn tappets!

 

Usually the tapping noises are; as so many people have pointed out, due to the Hydraulic tappets as the stem seals have always been a slight problem on all modern cars, not just the MG/R's

How old are these cars and are they still under main agent warrantees? These stem seals are made of rubber and so will expand/contract due to the ever-changing temperatures in which they operate which allows the oil, which they greatly depend upon to flow away from the valve stems, and so cause the "tap, tap, tap". This noise however should disappear when they receive lubrication (after a short time after a cold start or at the very latest, when the engine is beginning to reach its normal operating temperature). These problems don't tend to present themselves until later in an engines life as the stem seals become hard due to the before mentioned operating variables which causes the rubber to harden and become less malleable which allows the oil to seep back in to the sump, thus causing the "tapping"

The K16 engine has also always been a "tappy" beggar and maybe you're just hearing this noise more as you have no sound proofing (Cheap skates for not fitting this). Another silly thing to ask but I’m gonna go for it as I’m on a role:

Do you check you engine oil level on a regular basis?

A new engine will consume oil in its first 6 - 8 months of life and the tapping noise you are describing is also a good indication of a lowish oil level.

Sorry if i've asked questions that might have been asked/answered already :irked:

Mick

 

Thanks for that Mick.

Oil is checked regular as you can see I do cover quite a bit of mileage. Over 10k since end of July. If that's a lot. Is to me!

The only over thing I have noticed, although I don't know if it is particulary unusual or how long it has been occuring, is that there appear to be a constant supply of white smoke from the exhaust.

I wouldn't say loads. The only way to describe it is that on a winters morning when you notice the fumes expel from the rear box due to the temp etc. I appear to be able to see a white smoke almost constantly, including when the engine and exterior temp. is warm. I haven't noticed this on other cars.

It was mentioned to me by the dealer some time ago, when they attempted to diagnose the inital engine problem, that they put some fuel and injector treatment in, as they though the rattle initally could be down to a build up of carbon. I found this strange due to the very low mileage I had at the time, along with the car mostly being run on a motorway London --> Notts. They state that I may get some excesive smoke, although this shouldn't be happening now surely, even after an oil change.
They also made mention of the fuel I was using. i used to use tesco (due to price and pts!).
Since the stem oil seals etc have been done. I've stuck to the same station and use Optimax. I do feel that the perfomance and running is better since then though.
Any other thoughts? I read a couple of other threads and seen that some people who have had rattles had had complete engine changes done by the dealer? My dealer keeps complaining to me that they have to report and seek permission from Rover HQ before they touch or do almost anything!

 

Just to clear up a few points!

Simon - It is noticable at 1700-2000 rpm, but it always has been. Every K i've heard taps between these revs. This is perfectly normal i can assure u and anyone else out there that notices this. If it then conitunes to tap at idle, when up to optimun temp, then that isn't right! I've heard a few 200's/400's and 25's do this, but never a ZR. I thought they had eradicated it at last! Obviously i was proved wrong.
I've always used magnatec too, and genuine MRG oil filters. I changed the oil myself at 2.5k to drain out all the crap from running in, and there was never a problem afterwards with a tapping!
This leads me to believe something happened at the garage, or they follow a certain procedure in servicing the cars, that isn't best for these type of engines!

Dave1 - Like i said to Simon, i'm 99.9% sure that the tapping u get between 1700 and 2000 revs is perfectly normal! Don't worry about it, honestly. There is nothing the dealer can do as it isn't a fault.
There will only be a problem if the noise continues whist ticking over! Today at some point, put you ear near the drivers side front wheel, and keep it there for a few minutes. If you can hear a tapping, rattle sound, thats the same problem i have at the moment. Don't confuse this with the injectors clicking. You shouldn't be able to hear them from near the front wheel. If u hear u can hear a tapping over the top of the noise genreated by the drive belts, there is a problem. :err:

Simon, you too try this later and let me know how you get on. Dave1, i would be very interested to hear if your's does this, as if it does, i will print this thread, and show it to my dealer.
Let me know how the testing goes guys!
Oh and by the way, having the bonnet up will make the noise harder to spot. You need it down in the fully closed position, ideally parked with drivers side parked next to a wall of some sort.

MickPM - My ZR105+ is almost 1 year old and has covered 10.6K. As i said in my earlier posts, the engine was as quiet as anything i've heard to the morning i dropped her off at the dealers for the 1st service. When i picked it up 3 hours later, this tap/rattle was prominent. Read my last posts, as i've explained it in better detail there. I've had this problem before! :cus:
I;m also 99% sure it isn't the tappets, but piston slap! I don't think it's something that will get worse, it's just annoying when your sitting in traffic or a quiet place and all u can hear is the diesel in the front!
Funny you should say about oil level. I check mine at least once a week, twice a week if been out on a hard drive! It's only moved slightly, but then i would have expected that.
I always monitor fluid levels, tyres, etc etc. Always a preventative!

Mr Ingram - Didn't cover any miles whist in being service. had exactly the same miles on it, apart froma few tengths driving it onsite. I thought that at first too!

 

I wouldn't worry about the expelling of white smoke UNLESS you've notice that either your coolant levels have dropped rapidly or your oil is starting to look like Bailey's!! I'm pretty sure that MG/R fitted the new metal oil well dowls over the plastic one's which lead to the commonly known Head Gasket Failure on these engines after 1997-98 so this shouldn't be an issue here.

I'd be guessing that the white smoke is in fact the evapouration of water that has built up in your exhast system. If you've ever felt the weight of the exhaust system when you're replacing one you can feel the differance and it's all due to water retention!

Carbon build up is also doubtfull if the car isn't that old but I couldn't rule it out 100%. I also drive a Mk4 Astra as my everyday car and it's a fooker for needing to have the Idle control vlave and throttle body striped and cleaned. It's something to do with an oil way breather drawing air through the TB which allows the build up so i'm guessing it's possible on other cars also.

 

Re how do you fit a full filter when it's on its side: As I indicated earlier, with skill and practice. Slowly fill the new filter with oil (preferably from a small can), through the centre hole. It will fill the filter and migrate through the element. Once full (you can see it, get ready for the fun.

Holding the filter with the open end uppermost, get it as near as possible to the fitting point, then quickly turn it through 90 degrees to fit, and simultaneously spin it on to the fixture. Mke sure it's not cross-threaded, and tighten. The action of spinning stops most of the oil pouring out.

I change my oil twice a year, and i've never spilled more that a teaspoon of oil. Put a tray or a cloth underneath if you don't fancy your chances, but believe me it works.

Re oil flush. I would ask why? If the car is running OK, leave alone. If not, and it could be oil related problems (e.g. sticky valves), then go ahead, but you may do more harm than good.