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Why MGR really collapsed (and no it wasn't P4 or Bl) it was the people of our country

4.8K views 61 replies 24 participants last post by  MGJohn  
#1 ·
I was searching through austin-rover.co.uk and I found an article which is so true. I expect many of you have seen this if so I aplogise, but for those which havn't please read this.

Why don't Britons buy British cars?

A journey on British roads soon provides the answer. The private buyer usually goes for a UK-built Japanese brand, for a runabout, but for something with prestige, they buy German. And Britain is addicted to German cars big time. I have often cynically remarked that the Brits would buy an overflowing septic tank if it had a VW badge on it, and though that is an exaggeration, I sometimes wonder.

And the number of BMWs on the road is astonishing; not just recent models. It has become the prestige car of choice for Britain's growing 'chav' culture. The bottom line is that BMWs are percieved by many as "cool" and fashionable.

Another perception is that German cars are more reliable than British models. This is probably about as true as the perception that the 1968 Tet offensive was a defeat for the USA in the Vietnam war. Yet Britons seem very willing to believe that British cars are inferior, helped by a media that seems to revel in reporting problems with UK-built cars, and giving scant coverage to faults with foreign models.

I feel that a Rover 75 or a Jaguar has much more individual flair and style than any BMW. BMW styling is bland and always based on the 3 box format with no sense of originality. The cars always look like upmarket Ford Cortinas, however BMW try and dress them up.

And now back to the subject of fashion. It maybe that in the long term we are going to have to kiss goodbye to both Jaguar and Rover. The values these brands epitomise no longer exist. Britain has changed a great deal since the Sixties and Seventies. Back then Britain still thought of itself as a major player in world affairs; Britain still had a major share of world markets, and successful people drove British cars - while the younger generation aspired to follow in their footsteps.

However the bitter industrial disputes of the Seventies shattered consumers' faith in UK made goods, and although all that is now a generation ago, the sales lost were never recovered. There has also been a revisionist re-writing of many aspects of British history, such as the empire, which question the values of previous generations.

Against this background, Rovers and Jaguars are seen as staid and boring, and driven by "squares", by a society obsessed with youth. The two terrible recessions of the early Eighties and early Nineties shattered British society, creating schisms which have never been healed. From ruling half of the globe, Britain is now a society of two halves.

John Major once visualised Britain as warm beer and cricket. His vision was one from the past, it should read lager and football. So, in short the brand values of both Rover and Jaguar are from a Britain that no longer exists, no matter how good the cars are, and the cars are good.

And so the only conclusion I can come to is that Britons want to keep the ÂŁ and use it to buy foreign cars. I hope and pray that in the future that maybe some British marque will be ressurected successfully like Triumph motorcycles has been.
 
#4 ·
This sounds like what the press and public do in the US. GM and Ford are treated with similar disdain. Anything built by them is inferior. Anything from ANYwhere else is better than what those two produce.
The Rovers are quite beautiful. They would be popular here.
Hoping for a strong comeback for the brand.
 
#5 ·
63Valiant said:
This sounds like what the press and public do in the US. GM and Ford are treated with similar disdain. Anything built by them is inferior. Anything from ANYwhere else is better than what those two produce.
The Rovers are quite beautiful. They would be popular here.
Hoping for a strong comeback for the brand.
I suppose the same is happening in the USA, probally the most patrotic nation. Its a shame because ford make nice looking cars and they have that "western charachter" like rover, jaguar etc.Yet they are replaced by "cheap" Japenese things which people buy to get from A too B.

People seem not to love their cars anymore
 
#6 ·
British Beast said:
I suppose the same is happening in the USA, probally the most patrotic nation. Its a shame because ford make nice looking cars and they have that "western charachter" like rover, jaguar etc.Yet they are replaced by "cheap" Japenese things which people buy to get from A too B.

People seem not to love their cars anymore
Have you ever driven a Japanese car? they haven't taken over the market by accident you know
 
#7 ·
63Valiant said:
This sounds like what the press and public do in the US. GM and Ford are treated with similar disdain. Anything built by them is inferior. Anything from ANYwhere else is better than what those two produce.
The Rovers are quite beautiful. They would be popular here.
Hoping for a strong comeback for the brand.
Same like Opel and Ford here a few years ago. Both brands destroyed their brand image a few years ago with inferior built quality and too many recalls. In the mid 90s this was justified, both companies had built rusty and unreliable cars. But meanwhile both companies offer cars with excellent quality. So I drove the new Astra and I was satisfied about the car and its quality.

I don't know about Ford's and Vauxhall's image for quality and reliability in the UK. Ford is there still market leader so it must be better than in Germany?

My second and third car were both Ford Foci. While the first one had some rattles and squeaks (first month of production, this may happen) the second one (year 2000) was very well built and a car you could rely on. My friends with BMWs or Audi A3s had much more problems than me :p. Since March I got the Fiesta and the car is free of rattles and squeaks and despite a flimsy alloy-look foil on the center stack there are no quality issues with the car.

After a lot of Volkswagens my parents drive a Swindon built Civic Aerodeck since 1998. The car needs a visit to the dealer only for oil change. There are a lot of reasons for the brand's reputation for quality.

Andy
 
#8 ·
AndyA said:
The car needs a visit to the dealer only for oil change. There are a lot of reasons for the brand's reputation for quality.

Andy
That's the only reason why I always have visited my Rover dealer with the 4 Rover cars I had in the last 20 years: OIL CHANGE. Just to give you an example, some years ago I saw again my ex Rover 213 (1987) I sold to a friend. That time the car had 323,000 Km, and the engine was still sounding like new. Very impressed about that.
 
#9 ·
About the Title of this thread, here below there is an opinion from another person. The article is from today. I don't know that person, so please don't get angry at me about politics issues :=p:


From: icBirmingham
------------------
Jones slams Phoenix Four
Jun 24 2005
By John Duckers, Business Editor


Too many people let their hearts rule their heads when the Phoenix Four took over Longbridge in 2000, Sir Digby Jones, director general of the CBI, has told The Birmingham Post.

Sir Digby would not name names, but it is thought he was targeting the Government and the trade unions.

"Some people should think - were we blind?" said Sir Digby. "Did we let our hearts rule our heads?"

He said the way John Towers and his team had been hailed as saviours when they came to the rescue had " created an impression with the workforce and the Government that things were going to be all right".

But the new owners "did not address the real issues" and missed a golden opportunity.

Had they concentrated on the MG brand, albeit with far fewer workers, "then the business today would be making 80-90,000 sports cars a year at Longbridge".

Sir Digby hit out following a speech to the CBI West Midlands Summer Banquet at Birmingham Botanical Gardens. In it he reiterated scathing comments about the Phoenix Four.

"Their conduct was appalling," said Sir Digby.

Detailing how Mr Towers, Peter Beale, Nick Stephenson and John Edwards had "burned" BMW's ÂŁ500 million dowry in five years, put 6,000 people out of work and taken ÂŁ40 million out of the business along the way, he said it "did nothing for the image of British business".

And he pleaded with the four to return as much of the money as they could.

He cautioned: "I would call on them once it is all sorted out and the smoke has blown over, then if they do end up with substantial sums, if they could find it in their hearts to put that back to help those who will not find work.

"It would help those - and there will be some - who have serious social problems for the rest of their lives."

Sir Digby said he accepted the failure was not all the fault of the management.

"They were trying to build a car in the most competitive sector of the market, in a 100 year old factory, with a road, the A38, going through the middle of it."

And listing comparative figures showing that Nissan at Sunderland produced 300,000 units with 3,000 people, Toyota at Burnsaton with 200,000 units with 2,000 people and MG Rover with 6,000 people and just over 100,000 cars a year, he noted: "Their business model was wrong. It was never going to succeed."

Sir Digby called for a major skills push in the country aimed at countering debacles such as MG Rover by going for "the jobs of tomorrow".

He praised the Rover Taskforce for their efforts at reskilling MG Rover workers and getting them back into jobs, albeit there remained a long way to go. But business had to get involved in schools to inspire the 14-15 year olds while teachers needed to be less suspicious of business.

Instead of sports competitions where nobody was allowed to be the victor, children needed to be taught about "risk and winning".

And somebody had to stop the Health and Safety Executive making it almost impossible for firms to give teenagers experience.

(article continue...)
 
#10 ·
People buy German cars here in the UK. Yep. They think them prestigious.

Why? German cars are frequently some of the worst in consumer surveys.

Reliable? An ILLUSION.

It all boils down to how you build the brand. Rover became 'Pipe and Slippers' because thats exactly what they did to the brand. Rover was 'unreliable' because of 2 things - unlike our German freinds, they didn't learn how to make things appear bullet proof - remember VW? What was their slogan? Oh yes - 'if only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagon?' - it takes aspects of the product and it takes marketing consistency of message - say it over, and over, and over....

The only consistant message that Rover sent out was 'were British'. That's not fashionable here. In other regards, there was no marketing consistency.

And secondly, it was 'British' and emphasised this with union jacks, the tone of the adverts (this works overseas but not in the UK) etc. Because in Britain, 'British' is a damaged brand, you must build it differently. Get Germans to advertise it!

Use any awards it wins and advertise it as pretentiously as you can. Emphasise quality, and lifestyle. The P4 were responsible for letting the brand decline, whilst lost brands like Volvo have been recovered (with strong looking, sporty VOLVO models), and Skoda, using chunkyness and consistent advertising messages (i.e. they set out to win 'car of the year' and then made everyone know it.)

If Skoda can be rescued, Rover can.

And as I've been saying, and an American confirms on this thread, if snobbishness harmed Rover at home, it would also be the very thing that would sell it in America. You could then drop 'embarrassing' models like the 45, except where it is popular overseas (if something is percieved as superior, people dont notice dated styling.) In Portugal for example, where the brand is percieved highly because modern Rovers are well made, no anti-Rover press is found, and the 75 gives a strong halo, these ranges also do well.

As for British press - we all know how much they attack MGR. Thats why you develop a 'Clarkson Sense' and pre-empty the inevitable attacks, by saying

'will this CityRover get a Bashing?'

'Will this knackered old V8 be rediculed?'

Think as Clarkson would. When the Clarkson meter pegs out, you know you have to go back to the drawing board.
 
#11 ·
I agree with you ATB, and I really don't think the cause of the MG Rover demise is the British people. People should be free to buy what they want, if we live in a free world. The manufacturers must do the best in order to promote their products, and, by my point of view, if the Governments take care of their countries, they should do something to help their manufacturers. The same thing I think about the Press, I don't mean it must tell lies to the customers, but when I read such articles like that ones from Mr. Clarkson, I thing it's a shame.
 
#12 ·
The reputation of the German brands is as bloated here. While the preceived level of quality is at the top of the charts, the actuality is quite different.
After making such horrible cars as in the 70s GM and Ford still suffer a bad reputation. People's memories are long and unforgiving, it seems.You can just about sell anything with the proper marketing, but eventually the truth catches up with you.
There was a new Chrysler Crossfire parked in a motel lot where I stayed on vacation. The dealer paltes featured a duck with wheels on it and waving an American flag. The quote was "It feels good to buy American." Poor clueless duck selling an all German car as a US product. The patriotic angle as a promotional thing works less and less well among the public these days.
That whole "British pipe and slippers' thing seems very appealing to me, though.
 
#19 ·
sheefag said:
All of them? every single one? Surely not....... ROTFL
Pretty much. Name one legendery japenese car......

Then think of the British

Mini
Landrover defender
Jaguar E type
Range Rover
DB9
I could go on

Yes I'll agree there certainally well enginered and very pratical but soo booorrring
 
#20 ·
British Beast said:
Pretty much. Name one legendery japenese car......

Then think of the British

Mini
Landrover defender
Jaguar E type
Range Rover
DB9
I could go on

Yes I'll agree there certainally well enginered and very pratical but soo booorrring

Honda nsx
Datsun 240z
All of the Infiniti range (USA)
Honda Accord
Honda integra
Nissan skyline
and of course the original Toyota landcruiser which virtually wiped out Landrover in Australia and the African continent, maybe it was Clarkson's fault....

It's ironic really isn't it? The one thing that has destroyed British manufacturing over the last 50 years is the arrogant inability to take the opposition seriously. I think the fact that in the UK 'Dunkirk' is regarded as a victory.

( sorry, this thread would be incomplete without someone mentioning the war! )
 
#22 ·
sheefag said:
Honda nsx
Datsun 240z
All of the Infiniti range (USA)
Honda Accord
Honda integra
Nissan skyline
Reliable maybe, but all lacking style. Yes we all want reliabilty but not if the product looks like it was designed by a five year old with crayon. Unfortunately a lot of British people woudn't recognise style if it hit them over the head.

Anyway I have had several Rovers over the years that were very, very reliable.
 
#24 ·
Ok so the Landcruiser, knocked out Land-rover sales in Austrailia, and Africa, but only because it was a cheaper version, and spare parts could be knocked out in a tin hut, using the most basic of tools.

I belive that Mg-Rover designed and built models, could always have been world class products, if only the buying British public had forgiven them for the gems of seventies blandness-
austin allegro ( nice car in theory, very bad reliability)
morris marina ( trunion joints, exploding windscreens, ability to eat gearboxes)
austin ambassodor( mediocraty in metal)

and its the same in America,
Ford Edsel
Ford Pinto
Chevy Nova

Give a dog a bad name and it sticks!!!!
 
#25 ·
longbridge lad said:
Ok so the Landcruiser, knocked out Land-rover sales in Austrailia, and Africa, but only because it was a cheaper version, and spare parts could be knocked out in a tin hut, using the most basic of tools.
I think that you're right and I think that it was absolutely right for the market, hence it's success but it was also far more reliable than the Land-rover and when you're life depends on a vehicle, robustness and simplicity are paramount, tha abilty to fashion spare parts with rudimentary tools when you're in a adesertt shouldn't be underestimated.
 
#26 ·
longbridge lad said:
I belive that Mg-Rover designed and built models, could always have been world class products, if only the buying British public had forgiven them for the gems of seventies blandness-
austin allegro ( nice car in theory, very bad reliability)
morris marina ( trunion joints, exploding windscreens, ability to eat gearboxes)
austin ambassodor( mediocraty in metal)

and its the same in America,
Ford Edsel
Ford Pinto
Chevy Nova

Give a dog a bad name and it sticks!!!!
Again, you're right, back in the those days the public bought everything that came out of Longbridge, the manufacturers and dealers never thought that would ever change and consequently treated the public with contempt, along came choice and the rest is history. British industry has died through arrogance and to blame the potential buyer is a classic example of this. Long may you live in denial British Beast.