Right, have you had the head apart? Cam wheels off? Cams out?
Are you sure the belt is OK?
What engine is it?
Are you sure the belt is OK?
What engine is it?
Urgent Assistance With Timing Belt
Had to change the H/G over the last few days. I marked the cam belt and the two cam sprockets before removal. Just come to replace everything. I keep lining the two sprockets up and the notch on the crank ( I'm certain in how these line up), but when I come to rotate the crank to tension the belt, the marks keep coming up 1 tooth out. I've tried every way I can think of to sort this. I've tried putting the belt on 1 tooth ahead, I've tried taking the slack out of the front of the belt by putting the sprockets slightly ahead, nothing seems to work HELPPP.
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Well you don't rotate the crank to tension the belt.
Are you locking the cam sprockets?
Easiest thing to do is advance the exhaust cam slightly to allow the cambelt to fit into the teeth on the sprocket.
Then when you pull the cambelt onto the inlet cam you will pull against the spring tension on the cam and it should line up perfectly.
Then just fit belt round the tensioner and water pump.
Adjust tensioner and then you rotate the crank clockwise a full 2 turns and make sure the tensioner lines up again.
HTH
Are you locking the cam sprockets?
Easiest thing to do is advance the exhaust cam slightly to allow the cambelt to fit into the teeth on the sprocket.
Then when you pull the cambelt onto the inlet cam you will pull against the spring tension on the cam and it should line up perfectly.
Then just fit belt round the tensioner and water pump.
Adjust tensioner and then you rotate the crank clockwise a full 2 turns and make sure the tensioner lines up again.
HTH
Cam sprockets off = yes,Matt Hicks said:Right, have you had the head apart? Cam wheels off? Cams out?
Are you sure the belt is OK?
What engine is it?
Head apart = no, just the head gasket.
Engine = 214 K16
Thx Amagoza, will try that. Wish me luck, I could do wiith some. Cheers!
Good luck!BRAD said:Thx Amagoza, will try that. Wish me luck, I could do wiith some. Cheers!
If poss take pics and post them up so we can see how far out it is.
Here is what I would do.
Take both cam wheels off and DOUBLE CHECK you have the dowel in the right place on the cam wheel!!!!
Each cam wheel can be used on inlet or exhaust, written on the wheel is "in" or "ex".
Dowel needs to be in "in" for inlet cam and "ex" for exhaust cam.
Get crank to 90 deg BTDC (standard timing point for K series) and put the belt on. As someone else says, it may help to move the inlet cam slightly and then the exhaust cam a bit to get the belt on. When the belt is on, you should then have the crank at 90 deg BTDC and the inlest and exhaust arrows pointing at each other on the cams.
Take the cam locking tool out, if you are using one and then release the tensioner so it is able to take up some tension. You need to release the 8mm tensioner holding bolt and also the central allen type bolt by a 1/2 turn to enable the tensioner to move.
Put on the bottom pulley and then turn the engine by 1 turn and check it, turn it by another turn and check it. It should be OK if they are lined up when you start.
Take both cam wheels off and DOUBLE CHECK you have the dowel in the right place on the cam wheel!!!!
Each cam wheel can be used on inlet or exhaust, written on the wheel is "in" or "ex".
Dowel needs to be in "in" for inlet cam and "ex" for exhaust cam.
Get crank to 90 deg BTDC (standard timing point for K series) and put the belt on. As someone else says, it may help to move the inlet cam slightly and then the exhaust cam a bit to get the belt on. When the belt is on, you should then have the crank at 90 deg BTDC and the inlest and exhaust arrows pointing at each other on the cams.
Take the cam locking tool out, if you are using one and then release the tensioner so it is able to take up some tension. You need to release the 8mm tensioner holding bolt and also the central allen type bolt by a 1/2 turn to enable the tensioner to move.
Put on the bottom pulley and then turn the engine by 1 turn and check it, turn it by another turn and check it. It should be OK if they are lined up when you start.
Timing Belt Saga
Okay guys, this is getting serious, its doing my head in (the one on my shoulders, not the Rover, altough I've had a good go at that too !!).
I've tried all the methods that everyone suggests and STILL things are wrong.
Right, I took the belt off again, I lined the crank notch up with the 90 BTDC mark on the block, the cam gears are lined up as they should be and I put the belt on. I advanced the EX cam one tooth and line it up with the 2 white marks on the belt (thereby taking all the slack out the front of the belt). I do the same with the IN cam to take the slack out of between the cams. White mark lines up with the one on the belt on the IN sprocket. I tension the belt by pulling up on the backplate and tighten the bolt. I torque the Allen bolt on the tensioner. I then turn the engine over 2 times watching the cams all the time to see if it jumps a tooth (nothing). When the cams line up again the markings on the belt have jumped a tooth and the crank notch has moved (by one tooth??)
ANY FURTHER IDEAS?? THIS IS GETTING DESPERATE BEFORE I SCRAP IT.
By the way, how do I post a pic in this thread?
Okay guys, this is getting serious, its doing my head in (the one on my shoulders, not the Rover, altough I've had a good go at that too !!).
I've tried all the methods that everyone suggests and STILL things are wrong.
Right, I took the belt off again, I lined the crank notch up with the 90 BTDC mark on the block, the cam gears are lined up as they should be and I put the belt on. I advanced the EX cam one tooth and line it up with the 2 white marks on the belt (thereby taking all the slack out the front of the belt). I do the same with the IN cam to take the slack out of between the cams. White mark lines up with the one on the belt on the IN sprocket. I tension the belt by pulling up on the backplate and tighten the bolt. I torque the Allen bolt on the tensioner. I then turn the engine over 2 times watching the cams all the time to see if it jumps a tooth (nothing). When the cams line up again the markings on the belt have jumped a tooth and the crank notch has moved (by one tooth??)
ANY FURTHER IDEAS?? THIS IS GETTING DESPERATE BEFORE I SCRAP IT.
By the way, how do I post a pic in this thread?
I reckon you've got the pullies on wrong - did you mark which pulley was which one and the relationship of the roll pin on the camshaft to the pulley?
I've been working on the K Series for 13yrs+ and I still mark the cam sprockets with a dab of paint, identifying In or Ex and the placement of the roll pin.
Often saves a lot of head scratching come reassembly time..
I've been working on the K Series for 13yrs+ and I still mark the cam sprockets with a dab of paint, identifying In or Ex and the placement of the roll pin.
Often saves a lot of head scratching come reassembly time..
ave you checked what I said about the dowels being in inlet for inlet and exhaust for exhaust pulleys as they are interchangeable. To check, you will need to undo the cam pulley bolt.
If you are sure you have the crank at 90 btdc, then disregard your white marks on your belt.
Make sure the cams and pulleys are correct as above and then lock them using the locking tool - are you using one of these??
Just put the belt 1/4 on the bottom and get someone to hold it there. Pull the belt up to the exhaust cam and put it 1/4 on there, you may need to turn the cam a little forward or back to get a good line up with the belt teeth. You will have a little bit of slack to move the cams a tiny bit with the locking tool in.
Pull the belt across onto the inlet cam and put it on ther 1/4 - as with the exhaust you may need to turn the cam a little using the play you have within the locking tool. You should then have a belt which is not really tight, but OK between the crank and the exhaust pulley and then maybe a little slack/tight between the exhaust and inlet cam.
Put the belt on the water pump 1/4 and then slide it over the tensioner.
Check nothing has moved and take out the locking tool (may need to move cams a little again as they are "biting" into the tool from where you have moved them and put the belt on.
Slacken tensioner middle allen and other 8mm bolt, put on crank pulley and turn the crank a couple of times, it should defo be OK. Then once you are happy, do up the tensioner 8mm and allen bolt.
Then torque up other bolts incl tensioner, crank pulley and cam pulleys (using locking tool again).
HTH.
If you are sure you have the crank at 90 btdc, then disregard your white marks on your belt.
Make sure the cams and pulleys are correct as above and then lock them using the locking tool - are you using one of these??
Just put the belt 1/4 on the bottom and get someone to hold it there. Pull the belt up to the exhaust cam and put it 1/4 on there, you may need to turn the cam a little forward or back to get a good line up with the belt teeth. You will have a little bit of slack to move the cams a tiny bit with the locking tool in.
Pull the belt across onto the inlet cam and put it on ther 1/4 - as with the exhaust you may need to turn the cam a little using the play you have within the locking tool. You should then have a belt which is not really tight, but OK between the crank and the exhaust pulley and then maybe a little slack/tight between the exhaust and inlet cam.
Put the belt on the water pump 1/4 and then slide it over the tensioner.
Check nothing has moved and take out the locking tool (may need to move cams a little again as they are "biting" into the tool from where you have moved them and put the belt on.
Slacken tensioner middle allen and other 8mm bolt, put on crank pulley and turn the crank a couple of times, it should defo be OK. Then once you are happy, do up the tensioner 8mm and allen bolt.
Then torque up other bolts incl tensioner, crank pulley and cam pulleys (using locking tool again).
HTH.
Timing Gears
The problem is that the belt seems to jump 1 tooth when I turn the engine over twice to see if everything still lines up.
Yep, I marked the cam sprockets ( IN and EX) before removal and I marked the cam belt when it was on the sprockets so I could get the belt exactly as it was before. The roll pins have not been touched or taken out.Major Ingram said:I reckon you've got the pullies on wrong - did you mark which pulley was which one and the relationship of the roll pin on the camshaft to the pulley?
I've been working on the K Series for 13yrs+ and I still mark the cam sprockets with a dab of paint, identifying In or Ex and the placement of the roll pin.
Often saves a lot of head scratching come reassembly time..
The problem is that the belt seems to jump 1 tooth when I turn the engine over twice to see if everything still lines up.
Blet Worries
Yep, that is exactly how I've been trying to do the belt. The problem is that when all that is done, I turn the engine over twice to see if things sill line up correctly and everytime the belt has slipped a tooth (always in the same direction).Matt Hicks said:ave you checked what I said about the dowels being in inlet for inlet and exhaust for exhaust pulleys as they are interchangeable. To check, you will need to undo the cam pulley bolt.
If you are sure you have the crank at 90 btdc, then disregard your white marks on your belt.
Make sure the cams and pulleys are correct as above and then lock them using the locking tool - are you using one of these??
Just put the belt 1/4 on the bottom and get someone to hold it there. Pull the belt up to the exhaust cam and put it 1/4 on there, you may need to turn the cam a little forward or back to get a good line up with the belt teeth. You will have a little bit of slack to move the cams a tiny bit with the locking tool in.
Pull the belt across onto the inlet cam and put it on ther 1/4 - as with the exhaust you may need to turn the cam a little using the play you have within the locking tool. You should then have a belt which is not really tight, but OK between the crank and the exhaust pulley and then maybe a little slack/tight between the exhaust and inlet cam.
Put the belt on the water pump 1/4 and then slide it over the tensioner.
Check nothing has moved and take out the locking tool (may need to move cams a little again as they are "biting" into the tool from where you have moved them and put the belt on.
Slacken tensioner middle allen and other 8mm bolt, put on crank pulley and turn the crank a couple of times, it should defo be OK. Then once you are happy, do up the tensioner 8mm and allen bolt.
Then torque up other bolts incl tensioner, crank pulley and cam pulleys (using locking tool again).
HTH.
I had this problem too. I didn't do anything special to get it on. For me it was a 2 man job.
Remove the tensioner backplate bolt so the tensioner swings loose (thanks Major).
Put the cam wheel lock on after getting the cam wheels lined up.
Line the crank so the 2 dimples align either side of the 90 BTDC mark.
(1/4) Push the belt on to the cam wheels ( get a mate to hold it there).
Holding the crank in place (90 BTDC) with a wrench, take the slack out of the belt by hand and (1/4) ease it on to the crank sprocket.
Finaly ease the belt on to the water pump and tentioner and push the belt fully on the sprockets.
Put the tensioner back plate back in to position. I found the tensioner spring doesn't tension the belt enough without a bit of encouragement (over half the travel - mines on max). Once I had tensioned the belt enough, I torqued the tensioner up (before removing the cam lock). This is not the recomended method, but if I let the tensioner rest on it's own spring strength for 2 revolutions, one of the timing wheels jumped a tooth.
I will have to revisit this as I know the belt could be too tight.
Cheers
Remove the tensioner backplate bolt so the tensioner swings loose (thanks Major).
Put the cam wheel lock on after getting the cam wheels lined up.
Line the crank so the 2 dimples align either side of the 90 BTDC mark.
(1/4) Push the belt on to the cam wheels ( get a mate to hold it there).
Holding the crank in place (90 BTDC) with a wrench, take the slack out of the belt by hand and (1/4) ease it on to the crank sprocket.
Finaly ease the belt on to the water pump and tentioner and push the belt fully on the sprockets.
Put the tensioner back plate back in to position. I found the tensioner spring doesn't tension the belt enough without a bit of encouragement (over half the travel - mines on max). Once I had tensioned the belt enough, I torqued the tensioner up (before removing the cam lock). This is not the recomended method, but if I let the tensioner rest on it's own spring strength for 2 revolutions, one of the timing wheels jumped a tooth.
I will have to revisit this as I know the belt could be too tight.
Cheers
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
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