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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well my new uprated Clutch is finally ready to be installed.

Thanks to Jeremy and the lads at Kestrel Transmissions for building me the new uprated clutch final cost £350 CASH.

Thanks again to Dean/Bandit666 for his perserverance in supplying me with the spare flywheel to have refinished it arrived this morning finally after many problems trying to get a carrier to collect and deliver.

Took it down to Kestrel transmissions in Scunthorpe and they refinished the flywheel while i waited. Done in about half an hour luckily no problems getting the dowels out. they had already built the new clutch plate and ordered the uprated pressure plate (2100 lbs clamp pressure!) and bearing it all come together great.

So its now just a case of waiting for the gearbox to be finished by Andy and Neil at Intelligent tuning hopefully should be collecting that on Saturday all things going to plan then its down to Steve at Doncater gearboxes for him to install the new upgraded clutch and gearbox then it at least 5-600 miles of sensible driving to bed it all in!

Cheers, Mark.
 

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Glad to see your taking a sensible approach to this tuning. Whats been done to the box by the way? You might want to think about taking your CV boots off whilst your drivshafts are off and replacing the grease with molibdenum based grease (spelt something like that!) to help reduce ware of the joints. Have you thought about upgrading your bushing to cope with the extra force?
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Glad to see your taking a sensible approach to this tuning. Whats been done to the box by the way? You might want to think about taking your CV boots off whilst your drivshafts are off and replacing the grease with molibdenum based grease (spelt something like that!) to help reduce ware of the joints. Have you thought about upgrading your bushing to cope with the extra force?
Jim
Hi Jim

Well the gearbox is having all steel caged and uprated bearing fitted by intelligent tuning aka cookie racing along with a brand new torsen diff.

Taken on board what you have said about the CV boots and grease and as a procaution and pre empting having to have them done at a later date i will probably get steve who fitting my clutch and new box at doncaster gearbox's to change them and the grease at the same time.

Bushes? that something i hadn't really thought to much about does anybody actually do upgraded bushes for 200/400 etc mind there might be some uprated ones out there for the MG ZS 180?? which might fit will have to do some checking out .

The list is never ending i guess thats a big brake conversion and now bushes still to sort! then what....??

Cheers Mark.
 

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Glad to see your taking a sensible approach to this tuning. Whats been done to the box by the way? You might want to think about taking your CV boots off whilst your drivshafts are off and replacing the grease with molibdenum based grease (spelt something like that!) to help reduce ware of the joints. Have you thought about upgrading your bushing to cope with the extra force?
Jim
I can't see any worries coming from the CV joints or driveshafts, the T16 turbo people have been far in excess of what we'll ever manage in terms of torque, all with standard shafts, with no issues whatsoever, and as far as I'm aware, the diesel setups is every bit as tough.

Just as long as the box is steel caged (which Donny is getting done by Intelligent Tuning), then there really isn't much left to worry about, the rest of the drivetrain is more than up to the job.

I would definitely agree that Donny is doing things the right way around, no point upping the power while the rest of the car isn't safe taking it. As much as I'd love to pop a bigger turbo and uprated injectors on right now, I've learned more than enough with my old T16 turbos to know that it's brakes, suspension and drivetrain first, *then* more power. My bubble is pushing at it's safe limits as it is, I certainly wouldn't consider upping the power any more until I sort the rest of the car to take it.

And before everyone jumps on the injector bandwagon, here's a sobering thought - The PG1 gearbox in it's most durable form is rated to a maximum of 180 ft of torque. ;) Over about 220, you *will* kill it, it's been proven time after time that the gearbox doesn't like high torque loadings. I'd be getting the box rebuilt *before* upping the power to save any expensive and potentially very unsafe mishaps. Ever had a diff spit out a driveshaft at high speed under throttle? The PG1 is very good at that under high torque if not uprated. Make sure your airbags work. ;)
 

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I can't see any worries coming from the CV joints or driveshafts, the T16 turbo people have been far in excess of what we'll ever manage in terms of torque, all with standard shafts, with no issues whatsoever, and as far as I'm aware, the diesel setups is every bit as tough.
No worries at all, just helping them maintain a long life span. The grease that I often find in CV joints that are getting on a bit can be a bit dubious to say the least!
Jim
 

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Check this out if you want to replace the bushes, they are polyurethene bushes, was guna get these myself but there will probably be another set on soon.

Item number: 180110451853 on flea bay.
 

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Call me stupid (well... dont but..)
Is there not another gearbox that can me mated up with the l-series engine instead of using the PG1. for instance could a Gear box from a Rover75/ ZT, be used with the addition of a adaptor plate.

Just a thought, as it may work out cheaper than throwing a load of cash at the current gearbox.
 

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Call me stupid (well... dont but..)
Is there not another gearbox that can me mated up with the l-series engine instead of using the PG1. for instance could a Gear box from a Rover75/ ZT, be used with the addition of a adaptor plate.

Just a thought, as it may work out cheaper than throwing a load of cash at the current gearbox.
Simply put, no. If there were such a box for less than the price of a professionaly rebuilt PG1, someone from the T16 crowd would have probably found it by now! The PG2 (as fitted to the 827) is a much stronger box as standard, but just won't mate up to a suitable adaptor plate, and the ratios would be completely wrong. Besides, the upgrade path for the PG1 is well lit, and many have been that way before. Spending out about £250-£350 including labour will have a PG1 proven to take over 400 ft of torque, so I think that's quite a bargain, really. ;)
 

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Not to get on my high horse, but i dont think the pg1 gearbox is rated at a maximum of 180 lb ft of torque. that is just what it says on the powertrain website. In actual fact you will probably find it will put up with alot more. most things are made to take alot more than what they are rated at, otherwise the pg1 gearboxes would be fallinf apart allover the shop.
The 25/ZR has a maximum of 240 nm of torque, which if im rite is 177 lb ft of torque.

Unless i have taken what you have said totally wrong and you were just saying thats an advisable safe amout not to go above.

To be honest yes its right to go and get a gearbox rebuild and a uprated clutch, just to be on the safe side.

But if it was me, i would be quite happy to put a set of these injectors on, and let the gearbox take the extra strain as i think it could put up with it.

I maybe totally in the wrong hhhhhmmm, and everyone will disgree with me but wot the hey!
 

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otherwise the pg1 gearboxes would be fallinf apart allover the shop.
Ah, but the truth is, they do! In short - Been there, done that. ;) Ask any T16 turbo driver about the PG1 box, and they'll always have a sob story or two of just how fragile it is when pushed too hard. I've had two fail on me in the past, both cars were running a smidge less than 230 ft of torque, and I'm not one for heavy launches or much gearbox abuse.

As a said above, they're rated for 180 ft lb of torque, but can normally take about 220 on a fairly regular basis before they start falling apart. The bearings are plastic caged as standard, and just simply not up to the job.

Remember, tuning the L-series is a comparitively new area, but the T16 turbos have covered a lot of similar ground before, so it makes absolutely no sense to not draw from their pretty vast experience with things like the PG1, clutches and the like. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
so any ideas when ure getting the clutch fitted, donny?? would like to hear how it is to drive before i order one up.
Hi Mad

its Booked in for fitting on Tuesday 15th With Steve at Doncaster Gearbox's assuming i get my uprated gearbox back from Andy and Neil at Inteligent tuning in time, they've been snowed under with work and rather than them rushing it we agreed on it been ready to collect this Saturday.

Final cost looks to be £310 for the box rebuild with all steel caged bearings and my torsen diff installed fitting of the clutch and gearbox £150 assuming nothring unexpected comes to light.

Whole drive train project now stands at:-

£75 for the S6BSU gearbox off and 03 plate R25 that had done 18000 miles
£200 for a new type B torsen Diff off a friend of a friend
£310 for rebuilding upgrading the box and installing diff
£50 for another L series flywheel and postage!
£350 for building the clutch plate and assembly and re finishing the Flywheel
£150 labour for fitting the of both Gearbox and clutch assuming no probs!

Total cost £1135 make buying Hybrid turbo's,uprated injectors and FMIC look Cheap!!

Once done and collected i will report back on how it proforms.

Cheer, Mark.
 

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cheers for that mark, lucky enough i got my second hand parts alot cheaper than you and a free second hand diff, so should work out alot cheaper hopefully. you should think about doing a quickshift while the box is off the car, quite simple to do and helps with gear change, use universal joint too. will be watching closely
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Mad,

are you rebuilding the box yourself?

if so Andy at inteligent tuning is happy to just supply the uprated beaings for you to fit, also cautionary note make sure that diff you've got is in A1 condition any sign of ware on the output shafts that go through the main diff bearings could well spell early trouble as the theres no room for machining back and fitting oversize bearings.

On the quickshift side of things changing gear any quicker than i already do will probably end up with me beating the snycro's and damaging the box, so i'll just stick with standard and 'granny shifting' as much as possible to prolong everythings life span will be having new bushes fitted on the linkage along with new CV boots and Top notch grease when clutch and box are fitted and that will do me just fine for the moment!
 

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yer sounds good mark. no wont be doing it myself, put have a guy over here to do it for me, cant se sending a gearbox over the water would be cheap. might take u up on the bearings though, what kind of price are they?? well hopefully u'll give me a run when im over at cosford. aybe i could bring the clutch and flywheel with me and u could give it to kestrel, save postage one way. would u be interested sorting it for me??
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Mad,

Andy at intelligent can supply them for about £160-£180 that for every bearing steel caged and uprated that you will need will double check that for you when i speak to him on Friday.

Yes if you bring the Clutch and pressure plate to Cosford i will take it to Kestrel for you and then collect it and post it back to you. Will have to sort something with the payment for it as to get it for the price of £350 i paid, Jeremy would want cash, maybe transfer the money to my bank account and i will pay him cash for it when i collect it then just pay me the postage to send it back to you at the same time, i know a few couriers that are not to bad price/service wise.

Mark.
 

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alright people, i been running a kestral clutch for a couple of months now the only problem is its a bit keen when cold. if you dont give it a bit of extra throttle when pulling away it judders, when its warmed up its fine. other than that im very happy with the clutch, hope you guys get on ok with yours.
 
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