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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it time to kill the sacred cows?

I been thinking deep thoughts, for the last 30 years I been a fan of Lotus cars. I owned 2 a 60’s Élan and a FWD one as well. But I am afraid that I come to a shocking conclusion…I rather buy GERMAN!

Lotus or Lots of trouble usually serious, I grown tired of their total inability to do production engineering. I hear that they still require a major matance work every 5 mins, a new steering rack is common in only 10,000 miles. Latest thing to hit besides the paint falling off is the gear shifters snapping off.

Lotus went into de-nile on this, but alas we live in the information age…….internet/Digital camera’s/owners forums…………you get the picture……..so did all the other owners. In the US they stared a class action………Lotus crapped it and gave in with a recall……..they still tried to blag Brits even Autocar (which was soft because they needed all the friends they could get!)

So, having “Forgotten” to build the M 250 and run out of “special models” Eg Paint them in Gold Left/JPS or Senna colours. After being warned by everyone and even Autocar that its time to move on we are still 2 years away from the Espirt. Will it be any good? Will it last more than 500 miles before something falls off or breaks?

For the first time I am no longer worried about the fortunes of Lotus……..if they go to the wall I won’t be happy………….but I will understand why everyone Else bought Audi/Merc/BMW/Porsche!
Mega
 

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Mega The German said:
Blah Blah Unpatriotic Blah

I rather buy GERMAN!

Blah Blah More Unpatriotic Blah
Does this policy stretch to speaking German because your post makes little sense in English. And isn't Skoda Czech ?
 

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But wouldn't this just be a terrible waste of talent? Lotus is reknowned accross the world as being the best chassis tuners in the business, so much so that GM and Ford are regular customers.

The problem is, Lotus has just been handed over, time and again, to bad management who really don't have the foggiest idea on where the company is going and how to get there.

To merely suggest that closing them down is the answer is completely ludicrous. They just need forward thinking management, but prejudice will do them no favours what so ever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am informed that:-
BMW are giving Hethel a looking over to buy Lotus, this could be a "Blag" because Lotus are doing R&D work on BMW's new 911 chasing car.

Their is very little talent now left at Hethel.

I know that they can do it, but its got to work for more than 500 miles!
Mega
 

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Liam Olf said:
But wouldn't this just be a terrible waste of talent? Lotus is reknowned accross the world as being the best chassis tuners in the business, so much so that GM and Ford are regular customers.

The problem is, Lotus has just been handed over, time and again, to bad management who really don't have the foggiest idea on where the company is going and how to get there.

To merely suggest that closing them down is the answer is completely ludicrous. They just need forward thinking management, but prejudice will do them no favours what so ever.
They just need a company with deep pockets to buy them up. british cars have been poorly engineered/built cause of cost cutting & small budgets. imagine if bmw bought them- lotus styling & chassis with bmw components & quality. couldnt see them making a hash of it, lessons learnt the hard way
 

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Mega said:
Is it time to kill the sacred cows?

I been thinking deep thoughts, for the last 30 years I been a fan of Lotus cars. I owned 2 a 60’s Élan and a FWD one as well. But I am afraid that I come to a shocking conclusion…I rather buy GERMAN!

Lotus or Lots of trouble usually serious, I grown tired of their total inability to do production engineering. I hear that they still require a major matance work every 5 mins, a new steering rack is common in only 10,000 miles. Latest thing to hit besides the paint falling off is the gear shifters snapping off.

Lotus went into de-nile on this, but alas we live in the information age…….internet/Digital camera’s/owners forums…………you get the picture……..so did all the other owners. In the US they stared a class action………Lotus crapped it and gave in with a recall……..they still tried to blag Brits even Autocar (which was soft because they needed all the friends they could get!)

So, having “Forgotten” to build the M 250 and run out of “special models” Eg Paint them in Gold Left/JPS or Senna colours. After being warned by everyone and even Autocar that its time to move on we are still 2 years away from the Espirt. Will it be any good? Will it last more than 500 miles before something falls off or breaks?

For the first time I am no longer worried about the fortunes of Lotus……..if they go to the wall I won’t be happy………….but I will understand why everyone Else bought Audi/Merc/BMW/Porsche!
Mega
No Mike... it it is reliability you're after, may I suggest a Rover 45? The UK's second most reliable small family car. For reference, das Volkswagen Golf finished in eighth.

If only everything in life was as reliable as a Rover ;)

John
 

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The other thought that occurs to me Mike is do you order your cars direct from the factory? I mean, could it be they know it's for Mega and decide to build you a 'special' ;)

John
 
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Mega said:
I am informed that:-
BMW are giving Hethel a looking over to buy Lotus, this could be a "Blag" because Lotus are doing R&D work on BMW's new 911 chasing car.

Their is very little talent now left at Hethel.

I know that they can do it, but its got to work for more than 500 miles!
Mega
BMW have not and will not buy Lotus.

There is loads of talent left at Hethel, none in Liverpool though!
 

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Mega has a point: today's public expects their cars to be ultra-reliable. Anything that hasn't got the reputation of that reliability suffers badly.

Ironic really that Mercedes-Benz and Audi have both had terrible quality control problems over the last few years, yet they have the reputation for being quality manufacturers... which suggests that the marketing and public relations departments are more important than the engineering departments, but there you go.

For any manufacturer to have a chance, they do need to build reliable products: without that, your market place is going to dwindle.

That said, that is not the only problem facing the likes of Lotus and TVR. The biggest problem for both companies is the fact that the vast majority of the people who own one don't go on to buy another. Not because of the reliability or quality of the product: simply because for a lot of people, owning an out-and-out sportscar is a life ambition - on the list of things of things to do before I die. Once you've done that, most people don't need to do it again.

Mazda found the same thing with the original MX-5: it was a storming success, and they then modelled the whole of their product range around similar principles to the MX-5, only to find that they weren't getting repeat sales. Big mistake.

So how do Lotus and TVR and the like get round this problem? I don't know. Maybe a tie-in with someone like Jaguar or Mercedes - or possibly even Bentley - might work: Lotus-Cortina failed because it was too down market, but a Lotus-Jaguar X-300, comprising of a Lotus-tuned X-Type Jaguar with the 300bhp V8 engine and Lotus inspired interior and exterior tweeks might do both Lotus and Jaguar a lot of good...

That way, people who've 'done' the Elise and now need a more practical car could have a choice of buying a more practical Lotus.
 

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Its true we all expect our cars to be reliable these days and why not?

I would like to see lotus become a boutique manufacturer under the wing of a major and BMW would be fine and give access to a range of excellent UK built 4cyl engines. However is the more logical partner Toyota who have worked with Lotus for donkey's years and supply the current Elise engine - they could also be sold through Lexus without damaging any brand.
 

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JohnSwitzer said:
No Mike... it it is reliability you're after, may I suggest a Rover 45? The UK's second most reliable small family car. For reference, das Volkswagen Golf finished in eighth.

If only everything in life was as reliable as a Rover ;)

John
Much as I'd love to believe this statement, its simply not true.
 
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Err I beg to differ the VW Golf MK4 and MK5 are quite poor cars in terms of reliability. My mate swears by them but they always rattle, squeak, break etc. My ZT and ZS before it didn't do this... but hey we're British so they must be crap
 

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boxwellm said:
That said, that is not the only problem facing the likes of Lotus and TVR. The biggest problem for both companies is the fact that the vast majority of the people who own one don't go on to buy another. Not because of the reliability or quality of the product: simply because for a lot of people, owning an out-and-out sportscar is a life ambition - on the list of things of things to do before I die. Once you've done that, most people don't need to do it again.
This is the key to Porsche's success. They are the only manufacturer who manage to make a proper sportscar which are also totally usable as a day to day car and as comfortable as many mid-size saloons. Apart from the seating aspect they don't demand any compromise - most others do which is why people tire of them quickly.
 

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Originally Posted by Mega The German
Blah Blah Unpatriotic Blah

I rather buy GERMAN!

Blah Blah More Unpatriotic Blah


so Nick- if you dont buy something british or support somehting british your inpatriotic? so me having a mk1 golf and loving them to bits and not wanting a british version of htis car makes me unpatriotic?
people seem to be on thier high horses about people buying "foriegn" cars- so what? its their choice- their money not yours. mg-rovers are not the be all and end all
just my 2ps worth

oh and before anyone complains about my spelling grammar i have learning difficulties so dont go htere
 

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boxwellm said:
Mega has a point: today's public expects their cars to be ultra-reliable. ..
He does indeed but, when UK Car consumers think they're buying reliability and when subsequently their car is not, they don't shout it from the nearby rooftops.... indeed, there's evidence that they buy another.


boxwellm said:
Anything that hasn't got the reputation of that reliability suffers badly..
Not always, see comment above.

However, I'll be surprised if my Boxster owning neighbour will buy another new Porsche although he's never said much about the horrendous problems he had with his example. Quite the opposite, unlike what he had to say about my choice of cars PRIOR to his 'unfortunate' experience.

I strongly suspect it's a quirky 'British' thing...

Meantime, keep reading those surveys and take every word into account when selecting your next car ... ;)
 

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e668ecp said:
Err I beg to differ the VW Golf MK4 and MK5 are quite poor cars in terms of reliability. My mate swears by them but they always rattle, squeak, break etc. My ZT and ZS before it didn't do this... but hey we're British so they must be crap
In the 80s and early 90s I bought a couple of VW polo’s they were cheap and reliable.
About 3 years ago I bought a 3 year old golf both the head gasket and the gearbox went, such a lovely car never have another.
 

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During the period from 1989 to 2000 we 'owned' 2 Golf GTis and 2 Passats, some company cars, some we bought. They all suffered HGF, one of the Passats had TWO go on us. My wife recons it's the way I drive 'em, but I think it's the way VW make 'em.

I couldn't believe that HGF would strike twice, never mind FIVE times. No programmes like BBC Watchdog with sensational stories about VW reliability of course 'cos they aren't British, and we wouldn't want to say anything detrimental about our foreign competitors that would affect THEIR sales would we...
 

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Howard said:
During the period from 1989 to 2000 we 'owned' 2 Golf GTis and 2 Passats, some company cars, some we bought. They all suffered HGF, one of the Passats had TWO go on us. My wife recons it's the way I drive 'em, but I think it's the way VW make 'em.

I couldn't believe that HGF would strike twice, never mind FIVE times. No programmes like BBC Watchdog with sensational stories about VW reliability of course 'cos they aren't British, and we wouldn't want to say anything detrimental about our foreign competitors that would affect THEIR sales would we...
It makes you wonder if Rover sales, and the reputation of the cars, would have been much much better if they had spent years banging on with a slogan along the lines of "If only everything in life was as reliable as a Rover". I'm convinced that VW's reputation for reliablity is built largely on this.

I'm not using this as an opportunity to bash VW, by the way. I know people who have had no bother at all with VWs, and others who have had no end of trouble with them. When you are talking mass market cars, I think it's largely the luck of the draw as to whether you get a good 'un or a dog.
 

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MGJohn said:
He does indeed but, when UK Car consumers think they're buying reliability and when subsequently their car is not, they don't shout it from the nearby rooftops.... indeed, there's evidence that they buy another.
It's a stage by stage thing, Toyota have become the world's largest car manufacturer by producing very reliable cars - it is certainly not because they are exciting.

Some may buy another, some do not, some simply get stuck with another because it is the only model available on their company car scheme.

Another big factor is not that there is a problem, but how the manufacturer and more importantly their local dealer copes with it. If a dealer bends over backwards to sort a problem car a buyer is obviously a lot more likely to remain loyal to that marque.
 
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