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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folks

Just thought I would check with the real experts before continuing a discussion with my garage.

My 75T had the rear fuel pump swapped due to the usual issues listed on the forum in various places. This was done on about 4 to 6 months ago.

last week in France ( less than an hour off the ferry) going uphill with 1/3 of a tank - you can guess what happened - spent a few hours on hard shoulder and a couple of days waiting for rear fuel pump.

The old pump that the French dealer gave me - looked old, as in grimey/ gritty and a manufacture sticker of feb 02. Car was reg new in Mar 02. I checked some other stickers on dash etc and they had feb 02 as manufacture dates. The French dealer was quite certain that I did not have a rear fuel pumped changed on this car - and from what I can see - I think he might be right.

I go to my garage and ask if they can explain it - to be told - "there is two rear fuel pumps, obviously the one we did not change has broken"

Now I dont recall seeing any mention of two rear fuel pumps - and the (old) one in the box, has a sensor for the fuel gauge, and two pipes, which I thought went into each half of the tank.

So folks, am I being spun one, or have I been educated ?

Answers will naturally help me decided do I demand a refund or try to forget I assumed that the UK garage had pulled a fast one.


Cheers

ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought he was lieing - but wanted to double check before I started to carry on the conversation.

I told the UK man that the pump that failed had the fuel gague sensor on it - to which he replied they bith do. So seems a porky has been told.

How hard is it to lift the rear seat - to see even if there are two ports ?

Is there anything else he could have changed in the fuel tank area that might be mis-described as a fuel pump ? I think the answer is NO, but want to double check...

So assuming I have been mislead - what should I ask for?

Full refund of original work ? ( thats what I favour)

what would other people ask for ?


cheers

ian
 

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If this is a diesel, there is a 2nd rear pump which feeds the Parking heater with fuel. Consider it totally separate as it is outside the tank (by o/s jacking point) and has nothing to do with the engine running.

As their original fix solved whatever problem you went in with (presumably same symptoms) you could wonder if in fact it may have been a loose connector and not a failed pump. Eitherway, the repair should be in warranty.

If you want more info, have a look at
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=151829
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As their original fix solved whatever problem you went in with (presumably same symptoms) you could wonder if in fact it may have been a loose connector and not a failed pump. Eitherway, the repair should be in warranty.
A valid point, but equally I currently annoyed at paying for a new part, that I can not see - rather than it breaking again.

However - your right that you have to let people try and put right before getting annoyed - I know I make mistakes..

cheers

ian
 

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Just one other thing, the rear seet hides 2 inspection plates. I know the drivers side is the pump (as I've litterally just got back from ordering a new one).

I'm wondering if the garage saw 2 covers (one each side) and though the other is also a pump? For the lfe of me I can;t recall what the other inspection cover is for.

There is a good thread here:
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=123849
and it has a PDF to show the tank assembly. If you can get someone to confirm the n/s inspection cover is something like the fuel level sensor then this allows you to "discuss" the repair with the garage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi

I have had a brief discussion with garage. They admit to changing the part that is like the part that the French dealer changed.

I get the feeling that this is going to be a long discussion with them. It started with "you can talk to our supplier and see if they are willing to refund the parts cost".

I have refused to do that as I pay them, and I will discuss with them. The Garage is insisting the pump has been swapped and the date codes are a coincidence. "Rover has gone bust you know and so we can only get old stock." "Naturally, the pump will look old as you do a lot of motorway miles"

So I have pointed out that I use them once a quarter, a lot of customers come in only once a year, they should think what they want to offer and we will talk after my next road trip i.e. next week. High miles means that 12-15K passes verry often.

I am asking for a full refund of the original bill - I think they are only going to offer a parts cost - I guess about 50% of bill from mem.The question is, how can I prove they have not changed the part ? Which I have no reason to do if I get what I want.

Lets see how it pans out.

Cheers

ian
 

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Hi

I have had a brief discussion with garage. They admit to changing the part that is like the part that the French dealer changed.

I get the feeling that this is going to be a long discussion with them. It started with "you can talk to our supplier and see if they are willing to refund the parts cost".

I have refused to do that as I pay them, and I will discuss with them. The Garage is insisting the pump has been swapped and the date codes are a coincidence. "Rover has gone bust you know and so we can only get old stock." "Naturally, the pump will look old as you do a lot of motorway miles"

So I have pointed out that I use them once a quarter, a lot of customers come in only once a year, they should think what they want to offer and we will talk after my next road trip i.e. next week. High miles means that 12-15K passes verry often.

I am asking for a full refund of the original bill - I think they are only going to offer a parts cost - I guess about 50% of bill from mem.The question is, how can I prove they have not changed the part ? Which I have no reason to do if I get what I want.

Lets see how it pans out.

Cheers

ian
I replaced my in tank pump a couple of weeks ago. My 75 has done 103k and I believe its the orginal pump.
It looked like new, apart from a feint coating of 'dirt' on the intake gauze and on some of the plastic part. A quick wipe with a tissue and it would have looked like new. So there is no way a new pump will get into a filthy state in a matter of monts.
It sounds like they have fitted a secondhand one!

Ron
 

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Rover sold off the parts department to Caterpillar long before they went bust. You can still get brand new, boxed rover parts. as Ron says, he's just got a new pump (and mine is due to arrive later today). Might be worth finding out who their supplier is. If they mention xparts / smc / rimmer they are all reputable suppliers

You are also right that the contract you have is with the garage and not the supplier.

The issue seems to be the repair you paid for and they made has not fixed the problem, irrespective of who changed what with new or old.

If their original repair consisted of a new pump that has failed, then they need to replace the pump at their expense. That is what a guarantee is for. They in turn claim back the cost of the pump from their supplier.

You will hear loads of anecdotal evidence about what you can and can't do. Have a look at these sites for some more definitive info

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/goods-service/motor/index.shtml
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/goods-service/motor/fs_c01.shtml
http://www.consumerline.org/search/?catname=Goods+&+Services&item=Car+Repairs

Interestingly the governments consumer advice page has Rover as the main
page (also confirms the bit about who your agreement is with)

The last one also states


What The Law Says

...- fit replacement parts that are in good condition, that are able to
do the job and that will last a reasonable length of time;
If they have charged for a new pump (around £220 - £240) then this will be a minimum of 1 year.

Best of luck, and keep at them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Chat with garage is continuing..

Now they have admitted that they have not changed the pump, but only a module on the pump.

The part cost to me is 91 UKP - so what is the module ??

Any ideas ?

thanks

ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Still in conversation, but slowly working my way up the tree.

Now I am being told that they only changed a "module" not the fuel pump. So I have pointed out that their is (as far as I know) only a fuel pump in the tank, and it is a sealed unit. When I collected the car I was told the job was a b*gger to do as they had to change the pump in the tank. When I came back three months later the mechanic pointed to the rear fuel pump on my parts diagram. After he tried to tell me it was the second fuel pump, which doesnt exsit and now you trying to tell me that it was never a fuel pump to start off with.

So then it became, it was the electronics module on the fuel pump - except everyone else changes the pump in one piece cause they have too. Questioned How I knew this, and told them I checked it here. To which they replied, "how do you know they know their stuff ?"

" 'cause some of them have built more Rovers than you have seen" was my reply.

Then came a bit about, I can hardly expect a repair to last for ever, so I told them I expect my electric toaster to last longer than the three months I got from them.

Next was a bit about "I should have tested the work they did and not trust them to have competed the repair", which I told them I was naive enough to actually think they would fix what I had asked them to fix.

At which point they decided it was time to go and think, as they dont know what part they have changed, as the records dont show, agree that pump module could mean anything and were generally confussed.

So they have asked for a week to sort out their paperwork...I think I will give them one last go, and then if um happy look at small claims court for a refund - any ideas anyone..

feel better for writting that - even if the thread is no longer read as it is a few days old....

cheers
 

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Keep after them..... don't let them off the hook!!

This is an obvious case of supplier incompetence and they have to put it right... get your local trading standards people involved if you can - however in my experience they are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, but good luck anyway!

Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Your not the only one wondering what the module was....

I bet I get told in the next call, but it will be a different description from all the other descriptions they have had :)

when I find out, I will let you know, in case you want to retro fit one to your car...

cheers

ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi John

Still in discussion - I have heard no response from my last letter - so this weekend I will be sending a please replay within 28 days or else I will use small claims court to claim a refund...

Thanks for asking - I was going to ( and still plan) to post the whole details if we go to court and the name of the garage involved...

cheers

ian
 

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There are two level senders. One is attached to the pump, the other is in the other half of the tank. There are two pumps on the earlier vehicles, one in the rhs of the tank, the other next to the battery. The two additonal pipes on the top of the rear pump I will presume as being the fuel return and the FBH feed. I also think, having changed the pump, that there is a feed at the bottom of the pump as well as a connector which takes a feed from the other half. If I'm right, our previous theories about one half going dry and causing pump failure needs revising.
 
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