MG-Rover.org Forums banner
141 - 160 of 165 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
I used to have a V6 Freelander (I mention that engine, as its not a 4-pot) and because our drive has two cars, sometimes id have to move them around and I can tell you, the Freelander was always a difficult to start next morning if it had just been fired up and driven off, then back on the drive. Now, the obvious thing was sooted plugs that hadn't cleared off due to the 'rich' mixture injected onto them. But I just put up will it and after the car did fire, it was ok by the time I got to the bottom of my short road. Low miles-it had 43k on it when I sold it and I owned it for 10 years.

My MGTF is always out on the road and never cold-started then stopped-so I can't vouch for experience with your phenomena.

Im not sure how the 1.8 behaves when cold-started and not cleared-so you might be onto something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: steviejones133

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #142 ·
The weird thing is, it hasn’t always been like this......something must have changed and something must be causing it.....question is, what?
 

·
Registered
mg_tf
Joined
·
431 Posts
I suspected the CTS from early on, but Steve said he had renewed it. Following changing all sorts of things, I suggested this sensor should have it resistance values checked on it's operating temperature cycle to confirm it is serviceable.
It is not unusual for replacement electrical components to be substandard even though new, so to be sure, they should be checked to positively eliminate them as the source of issues.
 

·
Registered
rover_75
Joined
·
297 Posts
I suspected the CTS from early on, but Steve said he had renewed it. Following changing all sorts of things, I suggested this sensor should have it resistance values checked on it's operating temperature cycle to confirm it is serviceable.

It is not unusual for replacement electrical components to be substandard even though new, so to be sure, they should be checked to positively eliminate them as the source of issues.


Tell me about it, I replaced the ignitor for the n/s headlight on my 75 last year with a supposed genuine Hella part. It lasted 14 months. Mid Oct I bought another from eBay again alleged Hella part, it went last night 30 mins into a 70mile run home 1st time I’ve had lights on that long. Now seller wants me to put unit in a bowl of water and take pic before they will send a replacement, effectively taking car off road at night


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #148 · (Edited)
Another update, I’m hoping (fingers crossed) that I might have finally identified the culprit!

The other day, I had the EML come on - P0420 - catalyst system effiency below threshold (Bank1) and thought my cat had died. Took it yesterday to a National Tyres garage (they said they’d do me a free emissions test) but the cat passed the MOT standard for emissions.

Of course, there are other causes of P0420 such as failing O2 sensors and exhaust leaks, but no leaks detected and if passed the emissions test, that means the 02 sensors are okay, right? - I did have my mini Foxwell NT301 diagnostics running on live test mode and checked the sensor voltages which both were fluctuating regularly between 0.2 and 0.8v - that means working correctly, right?

Anyway, I’m digressing.....I told the guys there about the issues I’d been having in the mornings and they had the car up on the ramps checking for exhaust leaks etc - none found. We had a long chat about possibles, all kind of ruled out as I’d changed things like plugs etc etc.

We touched upon a possible vacuum leak - I had looked before, but many not well enough. While the engine was running, one of the guys went around with a spray carb cleaner - throttle body etc.....and then sprayed around the plastic inlet manifold itself. There was a drastic drop in revs at one point (pictured below) but not the actual gasket.

It appears I have a leak where the two pieces of the plastic manifold are joined together - see green line below.

Now, don’t know if it is coincidental or not, but the area of that leak is right on number one cyclinder - the one where I had the stuck spark plug.



Anyway, they suggest that I buy some Tiger Seal, clean up that area and seal it up. What’s the general consensus on that kind of fix?? - I went to EuroCarParts and they didn’t have any, but they did sell me a tube of Normfest ‘Proton Protection’ which they said was just the same ???

You guys have also been mentioning lean/rich fuel mix - again, the Foxwell live data showed me that short term fuel trim was running negative (rich?) between 0 and -8. Long term fuel trim was steady at about 5. Read that a possible cause of negative readings could be a stuck open injector?? - not sure about that but I use Redex religiously every tank so they should be pretty clear I’d have thought. Also read that a vacuum leak would cause the ECU to add more fuel, hence the slightly high negative STFT readings....

Oh, the Foxwell also showed that I was running in closed loop, if that helps - my understanding of which means that the ECU is taking readings from the 02 sensors and adjusting accordingly (even if being falsely affected by a vacuum leak adding fuel) vs. Open loop meaning the sensors may as well not be there or not working....

As always, comments appreciated on any of the above. Thanks!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Im not a purest, but Id not leave the repair in place- Id get a manifold from a breakers/ebay etc. I find it most unlikely the repair would last. Personally, Ive not heard of them cracking, but its good you have found something wrong and wiser for it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: steviejones133

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
Very interesting Stevie.

Out of interest, is that Green line someone else’s previous attempt at a repair?

I agree with Pat, I would definitely replace the whole manifold. I would think that you could get another plastic one for peanuts, with the alloy ones being far more desirable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: steviejones133

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #151 ·
Very interesting Stevie.

Out of interest, is that Green line someone else’s previous attempt at a repair?

I agree with Pat, I would definitely replace the whole manifold. I would think that you could get another plastic one for peanuts, with the alloy ones being far more desirable.
Nah mate, that green line is just me editing the photo to show where the leak is coming from :wink:

Yeah, agree that replacement is better than bodge, but right now, if it fixes the issue, at least then I KNOW what needs replacing. It might have to suffice for the next few months - if it works. I think the ally inlets have different size ports than my 1.6 so might be more of a hinderance from what I’ve read up on about upgrading from plastic to alloy inlet manifold
 

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #153 ·
Um Steve,Glad you seem to be getting somewhere. Did someone mention a little time ago about spraying WD40 or similar on the inlet manifold to check for leaks?
Yep, you did...and I did do that, obviously just not in the right place. I never thought that the plastic inlet manifold would have been leaking along that plastic weld line where the two piece manifold had been stuck together....just didn’t cross my mind to spray all over it, just around where the gasket is situated and of course, no leak from that area......
 

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #154 · (Edited)
On another note, as I thought the cat was knackered and it was just about in warranty, I’d contacted Klarius who said fine...return it without damage and we’ll honour it. Last time (2yrs ago) the cat was changed, the boss on the elbow had to be destroyed to get the sensor out. Thinking the same thing would happen again, spoke to Klarius who agreed that the cat could be returned with the O2 sensor in it to avoid voiding the warranty on the cat if damaged during sensor removal.

Upshot of that was that I had to get a new sensor in readiness for the new cat. Of course, as it turned out, the cat passed emissions so no warranty claim was possible. Typical....just lashed out £50 on a pair of new O2 sensors that I really don’t need right now.

Good thing is that they are both genuine Bosch MHK100840 sensors, and at £50.00 delivered for the two via eBay, they’ll go into the “stock cupboard” for future use....pretty sure I’ll need them at some point and better spend £50 now rather than over £100 in the future.



If anyone here is in need of an O2 sensor, this is the listing / seller I bought mine from - he’s got two left as of now, but I think he gets them fairly regularly:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-LS...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

At £25.00 each, that was dirt cheap for a new Bosch O2 sensor, cheapest I could find by a country mile.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Dirt cheap- I paid £45 for mine off ebay last month, and that was only because the guy had brought the wrong one.
 

·
Registered
rover_75
Joined
·
297 Posts
On another note, as I thought the cat was knackered and it was just about in warranty, I’d contacted Klarius who said fine...return it without damage and we’ll honour it. Last time (2yrs ago) the cat was changed, the boss on the elbow had to be destroyed to get the sensor out. Thinking the same thing would happen again, spoke to Klarius who agreed that the cat could be returned with the O2 sensor in it to avoid voiding the warranty on the cat if damaged during sensor removal.

Upshot of that was that I had to get a new sensor in readiness for the new cat. Of course, as it turned out, the cat passed emissions so no warranty claim was possible. Typical....just lashed out £50 on a pair of new O2 sensors that I really don’t need right now.

Good thing is that they are both genuine Bosch MHK100840 sensors, and at £50.00 delivered for the two via eBay, they’ll go into the “stock cupboard” for future use....pretty sure I’ll need them at some point and better spend £50 now rather than over £100 in the future.



If anyone here is in need of an O2 sensor, this is the listing / seller I bought mine from - he’s got two left as of now, but I think he gets them fairly regularly:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-LS...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

At £25.00 each, that was dirt cheap for a new Bosch O2 sensor, cheapest I could find by a country mile.....


They are know longer available, lol just my luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #157 ·
They are know longer available, lol just my luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I found that the seller relists these fairly often. Sometimes the listing ends as he’s away. If I were you, I’d drop him a message to find out more.....I had them in my watch list for some time, went to buy ‘em but he’d ended the listing as he was going away and told me he’d relist them in a week as he couldn’t post them out while not here.....
 

·
Registered
rover_75
Joined
·
297 Posts
I found that the seller relists these fairly often. Sometimes the listing ends as he’s away. If I were you, I’d drop him a message to find out more.....I had them in my watch list for some time, went to buy ‘em but he’d ended the listing as he was going away and told me he’d relist them in a week as he couldn’t post them out while not here.....


I’ll do that.. my 1.6 hunts a little when idling after the inlet manifold gasket failing. I have a feeling it may be the sensor on its way out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
mgf
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Discussion Starter · #159 ·
Just a 5 minute snippet of live data taken from my Foxwell NT301 OBDII reader after gunking up the possible vacuum leak on the intake manifold. Not the gasket, just the manifold housing as pictured before.

Any thoughts?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
141 - 160 of 165 Posts
Top