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People on this forum have got their heads in the sand
It's quite astonishing really to see that there are people still trying to blame the media for what has happened.
The UK papers rightly predicted the company, which has been losing between 20 and 25 million pounds a month, was in serious trouble. This time the fault lies squarely on the shoulders not of 'enthusiasts' -as many here have called them-but of asset-stripping crooks, or the 'Phinish 4' as they should be called from now on. People must be looking a bit silly now, to think that they were the ones who thought they knew what was going on at Longbridge and not the press. The P4 gang have been the only ones to benefit up to now. By filing for bankruptcy nobody can touch them; they have lined their pockets and secured their personal future, and in 5 years of ownership they've failed to achieve anything. Reducing losses when you have a BMW loan and have sold most of your assets aint much to shout about. NO NEW MODELS, NO PROMISED RETURN TO PROFIT IN 5 YEARS and, even more astonishingly, they were shipping off Powertrain's machinery even before a deal had been signed! How stupid can one get? But more sickening is the attitude on this forum that all this was somehow the public's fault. I bought a MINI 1 1/2 years ago because I wasn't sure the company would still be here two years on (proved right in the end) and because I was prepared to wait a bit longer for the new model to arrive (slim chance of that happening now). Patriotic yobishness is not going to solve anything. Instead of farting around with expensive sportscars like the SV which nobody wanted to buy, or churning out licence-built Indian crap they should have brought out new cars which people like me were waiting for and would have been keen to buy. It looks like ALchemy had the right idea after all...
 

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mg_zr
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In Italy 50% of new cars sold are Fiats. This is despite the fact that many Fiats are not as good as there MG Rover equivilants. Only the new Panda is a truly good car, the Punto is v.poor, no where near what MGR produced in the 1990's....

FIAT survive because of National Pride. Police Vehicle are Fiats, ministers drive Fiats, people buy Fiats.

This doesn't work in the UK because any sort of Patriotism is considered racist by many, and this is a discrace. People have holidays for St Andrews Day, and St. Patricks Day... but nothing is mentioned of St. Georges....

Yes, Rover have made losses... but so have Fiat, but there Govenment helps them out.....

If (and I say if) Rover is really this close to new models than letting it go now is a real shame. Someone, somewhere has got the maths wrong... spending a reported Fortune developing the RD60 for it never to arrive.

Negative Press has a lot to answer for, without a doubt. It's the press that creates / breaks sales. A piece of good press can make an extra 500 - 1000 orders the following week.

If the press regularly states how Rover are doing well, improving quality, etc.. people will get out there and test drive, and buy....

Instead UK press is NEGATIVE to the extreme. The do this about our industry, our goverment, and our National Teams. When countries like Italy play football, all the writeups are Positive, no matter what the score. England get bad press for winning games, and slated if they lose.......

Vauxhall are in financial ruins... yet the banks lend them money, Fiat are being bailed out "left, right and centre".... so MGR aren't the only ones. The products are not THAT old... The Range...

Rover 200 / 25 - 1996 (facelifted 1999 / 2005)- present
Rover 400 / 45 - 1995 (facelifted 1999 / 2005) - present
Rover 75 - 1999 (facelifted 2005) - present
MGF / TF - 1996 (facelifted 2003) - present

Looking at Rivals / other Manfactures...

The Corsa has been around since 1993 (facelifted 1999 / 2004)... the Ford Ka since 1995, the Punto 1993 -2004 the MX5 since 1995... and these are Mainsteam players with global presence....

Many have models spanning 10 years... or more.The Ford Ka will go 1995 - 2009, that's 14 years!!

The 45 hits 10 years, and is due to be replaced at the end of the year.... a deal for the 25 still needs to be done....

The range is good, quick, efficient, and reliable. People are still buying it, nearly 10,000 sales a month is significant, but the people of Britain have let it die. With support, even just from Government services, MGR would have broken even last year, and would now be in profit.

The People of Britain aren't proud of their country any more... how many times do you look to buy "British"? If you look through the catalogues at every day items, like Fridges, Washing Machines, Irons... there's British built ones for the same price as Chinese, but so few people care or even attempt to buy British...

It's a shame, and will one day ruin the country for ever....... Britain will make nothing, have no income as a Nation, and if we're not careful, be going backward so fast it can't be stopped......
 

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Need for a public inquiry?

There are certainly alot of questions that need answering.

The deal with the Chinesse seems to have given a great deal away for a small return. They sold the family silver to buy a few more months. Did they reallly believe that the Chinnese would take on all the debts and pension liability after they hjave got all the IP for 67M. This is crazy.

What happened to the missing 200 mil income identified by pwc.



As the Guardian quiotes CBI chief Sir Digby



"Sir Digby said the Rover crisis should be sorted out by the private sector. He also denounced the directors of Rover's owners, Phoenix Venture Holdings, by describing their behaviour in rewarding themselves with huge pay and pensions as "absolutely appalling". He said the directors had not done anything illegal. But he added: "It puts business in a very bad light and I want it stopped as soon as possible."
 

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Major Ingram said:
We're all entitled to our own opinions! :err:
I agree but starting a thread entitled People on this forum have got their heads in the sand is clearly trolling even if the main body of text was expressing a point of view.
 

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cosb6 said:
Vauxhall are in financial ruins... yet the banks lend them money
Not anymore - buried in the financial news this weekend has a little piece about GE Capital withdrawing their debt bonds and any further loans from GM.

Watch this space, Mitsubishi yesterday, MG Rover today, GM tomorrow....
 

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mg_zr
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I can't understand the comments on the BBC website...

"Government should NEVER give money to private companies"....

hmm.... subsidised Railways... Subsidised Bus Routes...

They are paying out MILLIONS every year to PRIVATE bus companies to drive round routes that aren't economic. Why????

Why not give money to MGR as well..... at least this is Short Term!
 

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It seems certain that the P4 are not blameless. There are questions to be answered, some very tough ones to answer i feel. They certainly arent as god like as some on here make out.

I dont agree that the media are blameless. Most car mags seem intent on bad mouthing MG-R and its products, although some of it is/was justified. Topgear really didnt help, if they do a Rover special now saying what a shame it all is i may just lose it and kill them all...

Some of MG-Rs products arent as old as some other manufacturers, but other manufacturers hide it better. Most manufacturers seem to have re-skinned their older cars, not just facelifted them. Face it the newest 25 looks just like a 1996 200 mk3, which was only an ok car at launch to start with. The same goes for the 400/45. Does it really offer you more? Not really, a few more toys perhaps, tweeked handling and thats it...
 

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clarete said:
It's quite astonishing really to see that there are people still trying to blame the media for what has happened.
Are you a journalist? ;-) The main problem is that they didn't sell enough cars - the UK media has been consistently negative about MG Rover - sometimes justified but not always. People who have never owned a rover assume they are crap - who is to blame if not the media? Why should the BBC put a picture of a Morris Marina with the caption "Worst car ever built?" when it has nothing to do with Rover, and if they must rake up British Leyland history from 30 years ago, why not one of the more successful vehicles such as the Mini?

No media in Europe (the world?) is so obsessively critical of their own country.

>The P4 gang have been the only ones to benefit up to now.

You don't count 6,000 people (plus countless more in support industries) being employed for a further 5 years a benefit?

>Reducing losses when you have a BMW loan and have sold most of your
>assets aint much to shout about. NO NEW MODELS, NO PROMISED RETURN >TO PROFIT IN 5 YEARS

It was always going to be an uphill struggle with the world car industry in decline, development costs increasing and so on. It was clear from the start that they needed external investment - unfortunately the state of the worldwide industry was always going to make that difficult.

>But more sickening is the attitude on this forum that all this was somehow
>the public's fault. I bought a MINI 1 1/2 years ago because I wasn't sure the >company would still be here two years on (proved right in the end) and
>because I was prepared to wait a bit longer for the new model to arrive (slim >chance of that happening now).

I agree that people should buy the car that they want to buy. It's just a shame that the British media have tarnished rover's image so much. People who one the cars generally seem to be happy, though with any marque you can find horror stories.

>Patriotic yobishness is not going to solve anything.

True, calling French and German cars sh*t doesn't really help the cause - people know that French and German cars aren't sh*t so it makes our arguments come across as being unreasonable.

>Instead of farting around with expensive sportscars like the SV which >nobody wanted to buy, or churning out licence-built Indian crap they should >have brought out new cars which people like me were waiting for and would >have been keen to buy.

If they didn't have the money, they didn't have the money. Even if they hadn't taken any money out of the firm, how far would it have gone?
 

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other_manufacturer
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Who's sayiing the press are to blame anyway? Sure, they played their part but it's a complex situation with equally complex cause and effect, and most people on here seem to acknowledge that, so why clarete saw fit to post a 1000 word diatribe accusing the average member for holding a viewpoint that simply does not generally prevail is anyones guess?

DD
 

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clarete said:
People on this forum have got their heads in the sand


No they haven't - look at me!! I don't. At least I don't have my head in a half empty cup...

clarete said:
It's quite astonishing really to see that there are people still trying to blame the media for what has happened.
You must be easily astonished, then.

I've spent the last six months following the press stories about MG Rover. They never reported anything good. Often, they got lots of things factually wrong. I never really questioned the medias' accuracy, until recently. But now...

clarete said:
People must be looking a bit silly now, to think that they were the ones who thought they knew what was going on at Longbridge and not the press.
Well, that's true, granted, but there is no sand around my head at this moment.

clarete said:
The P4 gang have been the only ones to benefit up to now.
I don't know...6,000 MG Rover workers, although doubtless are worried now, would probably admit that they are happy that they had at least five more years in a job. The Birmingham economy, too.

There were some great cars launced, too.

The MG ZT might possibly be the greatest car to be ever made by this company and it's predecessors.

clarete said:
and in 5 years of ownership they've failed to achieve anything.
Hmm... read that sentence again to yourself. Have they really achieved nothing in five years? Do you know anything at all about MG Rover, or are you just quoting somebody in a newspaper who knows 'everything' and is god almighty of all he pervades.

clarete said:
It looks like ALchemy had the right idea after all...
Well, I don't know what your job is, but for your sake I hope Alchemy don't turn up at your workplace someday with 'the right idea...' :idea:
 

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time for some objectivity

Hmmm,

Understand why posts like the above are likely inflame passions. But come on, the majority of experts who have confidently posted views of the future on this site have proved themselves to be hugely misinformed. I don't pretend to have a hotline to the boardroom, or a secret copy of the future product plan (short though I am sure it would be). However, I really do think it is time to face fact.

Volume car building at Longbridge is finished. Nobble as many ITV/Observer/Guardian polls as you like (see other post), it's highly unlikley anything will change. Not this time.

Sorry.
 

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cosb6 said:
I can't understand the comments on the BBC website...

"Government should NEVER give money to private companies"....

hmm.... subsidised Railways... Subsidised Bus Routes...

They are paying out MILLIONS every year to PRIVATE bus companies to drive round routes that aren't economic. Why????

Why not give money to MGR as well..... at least this is Short Term!
Maybe the BBC should remember where their funding comes from........... The license fee is a stelth tax after all!
 

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I am proud to be British and I support Britain when I can, I look for british made products, The same applies when buying a car. Ok most of my cars have been second hand, I now own 3 Rovers, 2 old SD1's which I have found most reliable, comfortable and fun. My other was an 800 2.5 which was costing a lot to run just for the wife to go to work, so we traded it in. My wife wanted a peugeot, which I was not happy about and we settled for a 51 plate Rover 25. I was very impressed with what I had bought and was impressed with the Quality of this car. I'm not one for small cars but this car really is great to drive. Its a real shame that people dont support their contry and what their country produces. I am proud to be British and if thats racist.....TOUGH. Cos I aint changin for anyone.......
 
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