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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all

I have noticed that Payen has changed the silicone bead on the latest BW750 gasket from "red" to "blue". I have always wondered why and have tried to find a answer to this without any luck. I have done a search for different standards of silicone material, and it seems to me that the blue silicone on the latest gasket migth be a "florusilicone" quality. This silicone is more resistent to oils, coolant and other chemicals than the more commen "red" type, but its temperature rating is not as high as for the "red" type. For all we know, detoriation of the red silicone bead over time due to chemicals, migth be one of the reasons why this gaskets suddenly fail at age, and thats why Payen has changed it??
Anyone here that knows more about this subject?

P.S.

I did ask a gasket supplier (which seems to be pretty serious) about this question a while ago, here are the email conversation:

Me:
I have noticed that the latest version of this gasket has a blue colored elastomer seal while the old one has a red silicone seal. I guess that the latest blue one has better properties than the OEM red. I see that the gasket on the picture has a red seal, but does the one you sell have the latest blue elastomer?

Gasket supplier:
You are correct, however the manufacturing fault rate found in this new version is 80% !!!!!

So we will not include them in our sets until Payen sort the production problems in their Eastern European factory.

Me:
I have to admit that I was not aware off
that fault rate!! I allready have a "blue" Payen gasket on the shelf which
I intend to use as a backup solution together with your 0,5mm thick
headsaver shim if my 1.8 for some reason fails. I am currently running on
the MLS gasket but am off the impression that these tends to weep a little
coolant externally (done 3 different engines with this "by the book" and
all has some minor weeping). I guess that the elastomer gasket is of a
tighter design and is a very good solution together with the head saver
shim. Do you know if there was any production batch of the blue elastomer
gasket that was worse than others?

Gasket supplier:
If you check either No1 or No4 cylinder, the
faulty ones have a badly
folded/crimped cylinder fire ring, usually only
one but it could be either 1
or 4 depends on which way around they put it
on the assembly jig !
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can't seem to send a link for some reason, but if you Google "sb2198 federal mogul" the first link is to a Federal Mogul Service Engineering Bulletin no. SB2198 from September 2010 detailing that the change in colour of the elastomer is purely cosmetic.

Actually, this rather long link might work:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RJZX9w&sig=AHIEtbQOPvNZdJwD8FzpabNbNTBint6sUw
Thaks for that :)

I have another link to the same document here: http://www.partinfo.co.uk/docs/418

Payen/Federal Mogul says this change is "cosmetic". I am not sure on how to "read" that. Anyway.. If it is a change I guess it is equal or better and it does not matter which one is fitted??
 

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'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
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I am surprised if Payen have only recently started marketing the blue elastomer version of the gasket under their own brand.

The genuine MG Rover ones with the blue beading have been available through XPart for several years now - these are manufactured by Payen (as the genuine Rover SLS/elastomer gaskets always have been), and are marked with the Coopers-Payen logo.

I fitted an MGR/XPart one to my old ZR nearly a year ago, and on comparing it with a red version I had in my spares box, it gave me the impression that the beading was more robust, but that may just be the more solid colouring making it appear that way. Sadly, I will never know how well it performs as the car got written off in December :sad3:
 

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mgf
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I popped in to my local Unipart place this morning to get a head gasket for my MGF, knowing that they sell Payen gaskets. (It had a gasket/skim/cambelt/water pump about 10k ago by a specialist- now it's burnt a valve) When he handed me the new type one with the blue silicone I asked if he knew of any failures or comebacks of this new type, and he told me they had to send 2 back to the supplier in November, so Payen have recalled the faulty batch so it seems. Worth checking when buying one. I'm an ex Rover tech, and no fan of the MLS. Liner height and proper torque/procedure is far more important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I popped in to my local Unipart place this morning to get a head gasket for my MGF, knowing that they sell Payen gaskets. (It had a gasket/skim/cambelt/water pump about 10k ago by a specialist- now it's burnt a valve) When he handed me the new type one with the blue silicone I asked if he knew of any failures or comebacks of this new type, and he told me they had to send 2 back to the supplier in November, so Payen have recalled the faulty batch so it seems. Worth checking when buying one. I'm an ex Rover tech, and no fan of the MLS. Liner height and proper torque/procedure is far more important.
Hi Tiff,

I have to agree with your last statement. I would like to add hardness test of the cylinder head to your last line as this is also one of the keys to a successfull repair :)
 

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Something I am curious about is:

I know the MLS is the "preferred/recommended" gasket by most on the forum, however I once read that the 1.1 should not use the MLS type and should use an original OEM/Rover Gasket. Can anyone confirm/deny?
 

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I did ask my supplier the question, however he recommended the MLS gasket even for the 1.1.

I don't stock the Payen-type anymore as I've monitored success, and believe the MLS to be the better choice.
 

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Any update on the Blue Payen BW750 head gasket, surely the problems have been sorted by now......however DMGRS in the UK have stopped stocking this gasket due to the number of returns!
 

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MG ZT, Rover 25
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I’ve fitted the DMGRS elastomer gasket, no problems. I’d fit it to my other k engined cars as required in the future. Dunno about Payen Blue, Matt would be best to answer.
 
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