[Shaf]

I have a question about oil coolers and temperature gauges.

I took my std 1.8 MGF to a track day and drove it hard. The oil temperature gauge was reading 170-180 degrees. Firstly how accurate is the gauge?

Regardless of how accurate it is I have decided to fit an oil cooler before my next trackday.

Did any of the MGF/TFs come with an oil cooler as standard? If so what model and what parts would you need to retro fit it to a standard 1.8?

Where is the oil coller located? Obviously the best place for cooling would be at the front but then you have a very long pipe run which I am concerned could lead to pressure drop and starvation problems. Anyone have any info>


And lastly has anyone fitted or seen an aftermarket cooler kit? I believe Brown and Gammons do one but it is not clear where the cooler is mounted.

Shaf

 

[1955diesel]

I believe the 160 has an oil/water type cooler -

I think your gauge must be reading high. I've run oil at 160+C on the test bed and it bakes it into a thick brown sludge.

 

[Chris T]

Some MK2 F oil temperature gauges are known to over read.


It was just the TF 160 (not the trophy) that had a factory fitted water cooled oil cooler, QED also make a kit but by all accounts it’s just about impossible to fit without removing the engine.

The alternative is a front mounted air cooled oil cooler with a thermostat, a number of people have done this without any reported problems with oil pressure and flow.

Have a look at this thread on the MGF register

 

[Petevick]

as 1995 said, only the TF160 had a water cooled oil cooler.

 

[Debs(Nitrous)TF]

Where is the oil coller located? Obviously the best place for cooling would be at the front but then you have a very long pipe run which I am concerned could lead to pressure drop and starvation problems.

And lastly has anyone fitted or seen an aftermarket cooler kit? I believe Brown and Gammons do one but it is not clear where the cooler is mounted.

For oil-air coolers to work they need to be placed in a good airstream -= hence, in this case, the cooler would be front mounted.

The B&G kit is OK but somewhat overpriced for cheap swaged unions.

Personally I would deal direct with Think Automotive:

http://www.thinkauto.com/index.html

I'd use a 235mm cooler with (ideally) 16 rows, and a replacement oil filter take-off head with a built in thermostat.

I'd specify both with JIC fittings in 'Dash 10' size, and I'd use Aeroquip metal braided hose in 'Dash 10' size (nominal 5/8" bore).

Before ordering the hose, I'd mock up the hose runs using garden hose to ascertain the lengths needed.

You could get Think Auto to swage on hose unions for you. Personally (if money were no object) I would use the relevent Aeroquip anodised aluminium unions since they have built in swivels and allow you to set the hose runs more cleanly - they also look good too!

 

[Tim.]

as 1995 said, only the TF160 had a water cooled oil cooler.

And its a damn nigh impossible retrofit without removing the engine
It's possible to fit an oil / air cooler adjacent to the radiator but the hoses are of course somewhat long

Mine can get up to 150C on the gauge on track at which time I back off. Don't think it would acutually go much further though.

There's a fix for an over-reading gauge on here somewhere but don't expect it to suddenly become a precision instrument.

 

[Shaf]

For oil-air coolers to work they need to be placed in a good airstream -= hence, in this case, the cooler would be front mounted.

The B&G kit is OK but somewhat overpriced for cheap swaged unions.

Personally I would deal direct with Think Automotive:

http://www.thinkauto.com/index.html

I'd use a 235mm cooler with (ideally) 16 rows, and a replacement oil filter take-off head with a built in thermostat.

I'd specify both with JIC fittings in 'Dash 10' size, and I'd use Aeroquip metal braided hose in 'Dash 10' size (nominal 5/8" bore).

Before ordering the hose, I'd mock up the hose runs using garden hose to ascertain the lengths needed.

You could get Think Auto to swage on hose unions for you. Personally (if money were no object) I would use the relevent Aeroquip anodised aluminium unions since they have built in swivels and allow you to set the hose runs more cleanly - they also look good too!

I have actually ordered (My wife tells me just received today) a thermostatic sandwich take off plate and 1/2inch Aeroquip pipe with special pushfit reusable unions. My main question really is whether it is simple to fit the cooler at the front without problems.

If others have done it without problems then that is reasonably encouraging for me. But I don't want to go off and do that if it is known to have problems.

As for gauges, where would I get a gauge that doesn't overread? Is it a sensor problem or gauge usually?

Shaf

 

[Chris T]

Have a look at this: www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY/oil_cooler/index.htm

 

[Debs(Nitrous)TF]

I have actually ordered a thermostatic sandwich take off plate and 1/2inch Aeroquip pipe with special pushfit reusable unions. My main question really is whether it is simple to fit the cooler at the front without problems.

The race cars have front mounted coolers, it really isn't that hard a job to do.

However,

Half inch ('Dash 8') hose is too small a bore to fit a front mounted cooler, especially on an engine of the capacity of the K.



When you say 'push fit re-useable unions do you mean these:

The above type are aeroquip re-useable anodised aluminium with built in swivels. They come in red/blue and you basically screw the olive into the pipe.

If you have this type if union then all well and good.


Or do you mean these:

Where the end pushes into the pipe and a jubilee clip is used.

If you have this type beware! They can (and do) fail under pressure/vibration. I had one fail on me at Mallory Park 20 years ago resulting in my sump contents being dumped over my front wheels (and a nasty spin). I have never used that type since and never will.

 

[Shaf]

It really surprises me that people have fitted these without thermostats. From demon tweeks the Mocal sandwich plates are the same price with/without.

I think a concern I would have mounting it at the front is that if the oil drains fromt he cooler back into the sump whent he engine is off, then when you start the engine up there will be no oil in the lines and the thermostat will be closed so they don't fill. Then when the temperature gets too high the thermostat opens and you get a period of oil starvation as the oil lines and cooler are filled rather than the engine. Not such a problem on track as you can make sure the engine and oil are up to temp before hammering the engine, but could be more of an issue on the road.

I'm still a bit undecided.

I think for now I will mount the cooler in the engine bay. It won't get a load of airflow and even that will be fairly hot air, but it will certainly be less than 170 degrees and could be just enough to keep the engine running at a decent temperature.

If the temperature is still very high then I will refit it later at the front but may see if I can fit some sort of priming pump.

Shaf

 

[Shaf]

Debs,
the second type. Was advised that the hose I have ordered is specially developed for use with these fittings.

As I have said above I will be mounting the cooler in the engine bay to start with as I am a bit scared of the potential problems of front mounting.

Then if this is still not enough I will refit it at the front. I will take your advice and get 5/8 inch pipe and Aeroquip fittings (The first type). They are more expensive but you only need 4 so it makes about £40 difference.

Once I have mounted the cooler and tested it a bit I'll post the results.

Shaf

 

[Debs(Nitrous)TF]

I think a concern I would have mounting it at the front is that if the oil drains from the cooler back into the sump whent he engine is off, then when you start the engine up there will be no oil in the lines and the thermostat will be closed so they don't fill.

It can't do that because of the anti drain valve in the filter. If it could do that, then mounting the cooler in the engine bay (and thus higher) would make the problem worse!

 

[Shaf]

It can't do that because of the anti drain valve in the filter. If it could do that, then mounting the cooler in the engine bay (and thus higher) would make the problem worse!

Is the anti drain valve in the filter itself or the filter head? Not sure exactly where the tappings on the sandwich plate come off from. I would have thought they do not bypass the filter.

I would probably mount the cooler low, possibly just above the subframe. And the pipe runs would be about 30 cm instead of 2-3m I calculate that is about 74cc compared to about 750cc. But then there is the oil cooler capacity on top of that.

Do you have a cooler fitted? Sounds like your car is seriously modified. Have you started with an MGF Cup car?

 

[CJJ]

Here's another option:

http://www.eliseparts.com/shop/inde...id=236&zenid=abf3eb6fd87e2ec43447dfab2cdb2233

I have the sandwich plate with thermostat and a new TF oil filter mounting (Good old e-bay), just need to decide which way to go.

My only problem with front mounting is you are increasing the area of possible failure. If you get a leak anywhere along the lines etc it could prove expensive.

 

[Shaf]

Here's another option:

http://www.eliseparts.com/shop/inde...id=236&zenid=abf3eb6fd87e2ec43447dfab2cdb2233

I have the sandwich plate with thermostat and a new TF oil filter mounting (Good old e-bay), just need to decide which way to go.

My only problem with front mounting is you are increasing the area of possible failure. If you get a leak anywhere along the lines etc it could prove expensive.

Yep looked at those. But far too expensive if you ask me and don't want to mess with the coolant system.

But price wise they are value for money compared to the B&G kit.

 

[CJJ]

I don't think it is that expensive for what you want, to protect the engine.

It is about the same price as a stainless exhaust backbox.

As I said, I would be more concerned about adding 8 - 10 foot of extra oil hoses than a simple mod to the coolent hoses. But I do accept the cooling system is best left alone on these cars. :bgrin2:

 

[Shaf]

CJJ you are quite right.

In the end it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend. And the more you spend on the engine in general the more you want to spend on protecting it.

My approach as I'm sure you have figured out already, is that if I can get a large proportion of the benefit at a fraction of the cost then I have a bit more money to spend elsewhere.

I would rather do lots of small mods to end up with a good performing package than spend a big wadge in one area then be left unable to upgrade other areas.

As an example I have just fitted a front air dam. Did n ot particularly like the looks of the trophy ones and also they are so small they probably don't have too much real effect.

Instead I have taken the rubber aim dam off an old mondeo and made it fit the MGF. Not driven the car yet so no feedback as yet on whether it makes any real difference. But cost me about 10p to do (Few screws) and I have £50 more to spend on something else.

(boy am I going to get a big fat "I told you so" from loads of people when my car goes pop)

 

[CJJ]

CJJ you are quite right.

In the end it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend. And the more you spend on the engine in general the more you want to spend on protecting it.

My approach as I'm sure you have figured out already, is that if I can get a large proportion of the benefit at a fraction of the cost then I have a bit more money to spend elsewhere.

I would rather do lots of small mods to end up with a good performing package than spend a big wadge in one area then be left unable to upgrade other areas.

As an example I have just fitted a front air dam. Did n ot particularly like the looks of the trophy ones and also they are so small they probably don't have too much real effect.

Instead I have taken the rubber aim dam off an old mondeo and made it fit the MGF. Not driven the car yet so no feedback as yet on whether it makes any real difference. But cost me about 10p to do (Few screws) and I have £50 more to spend on something else.

(boy am I going to get a big fat "I told you so" from loads of people when my car goes pop)

10p? did you get the whole Mondeo for that?

I can see where you are coming from regards prices. As you can tell I have decided to go the "throw money at it" approach, but you might have also noticed not much has happened recently on my project as I have ran out of the stuff at the minute. I have been picking up bts and bobs on e-bay though. Not totally dead in the water.

 

[Shaf]

I have gone the Save money but throw time at it approach. And mine is not progressing too much because I have run out of that stuff.

The Mondeo was free. Complicated story. But even if not I'm sure I could have persuaded my local scrappy to part with it for a few pence. Or if you want to do it at home you could easily find a mondeo on the street and just pull the air dam off. I do not encourage this sort of behaviour though.

I've currently got a Turbo I want to take apart but I'm stuck to find circlip pliers which will fit.

Shaf

 

[TipperMG]

If you eventually end up with a front mounted cooler note that the Steptronic/Stepspeeds have a CVT cooler mounted just below and in front of the radiator up front, so it should be easily achievable. Maybe using oil cooler/cooling pipes from a CVT is the way to go? Maybe pipe mountings along the route?

A look at the manual should tell you what it is mounted on I can't remember. (Sorry, didn't take much notice when I last removed the front bumper!)