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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Starting to need an oil cooler, but air or water cooled, can't decide

Air :-
Probably provides better cooling
Has a long oil path
Needs a thermostat
Might be difficult to drain at oil change
Vulnerable pipes under the pan
More tedious to install

Water :-
Probably inferior cooling
Speeds oil warm up time
Clutters up engine bay

What do you recon and add/correct the above.
 

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I'd go with the OEM oil/water one as found on the TF160.
Even when thrashing round Bedford on the hottest day of the year, my oil temp didnt go over 130! In fact the enigne bay fan only came on 5 mins after I had pulled of the track and stopped in the que for fuel :lol:
 

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I would be tempted to fit an OEM one from a 160 TF or the QED version. The problem I can see with the air cooled type is all that extra pipework.
 

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I've got the oil/water cooler on my TF engine Tim, and it doesn't cool it enough on hot days when 'pushing the envelope' on the track, I was touching the red at Snetterton but had no problem at Croft last weekend as it was noticeably cooler.

I am going for a oil radiator up front as fitted to the cup cars.

For road use the standard oil/water TF cooler is fine.

The other alternative is a Laminova oil/water cooler which I think Rob is looking at.

Stu
 

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Well, interestingly I have the oil/water cooler fitted from a TF and have never experienced high oil temps even on hot Bedford days. Before fitting the cooler three laps of Bedford in the summer put the oil gauge well into the red.

Neil
 

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Can anyone briefly outline the work up involved in retro fitting a TF oil cooler to the F engine please? Ta hugely chaps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Rob Bell gives us a good guide too installing the Air/oil cooler and heres a bit on the QED water/oil cooler, I'm guessing the standard TF 160 one is similar.
Both of these take and return oil through a sandwich plate fitted under the oil filter connection.
 

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Can anyone briefly outline the work up involved in retro fitting a TF oil cooler to the F engine please? Ta hugely chaps.
MGF Centre did mine a couple of years ago. The oil side is easy enough because it screws in place of the oil fillter and then the filter screw into it. The water side requires different plumbing in the cooling system and that's where the problems begin. I have no idea these days how easy it is to get the different coolant pipes.

The coil pack also required moving but I can't remember if the Trophy had the later coils on top of the head.

Well worth the hassle though as the oil temp is far more stable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've got the oil/water cooler on my TF engine Tim, and it doesn't cool it enough on hot days when 'pushing the envelope' on the track, I was touching the red at Snetterton but had no problem at Croft last weekend as it was noticeably cooler.

I am going for a oil radiator up front as fitted to the cup cars.

For road use the standard oil/water TF cooler is fine.

The other alternative is a Laminova oil/water cooler which I think Rob is looking at.

Stu
You're developing 15 or 20 BHP more than me though Stu, and you're a quicker driver. What say you flog me your water/oil cooler when you get the new air jobbie ;) - Unless you're thinking of running them in parallel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The coil pack also required moving but I can't remember if the Trophy had the later coils on top of the head.

Well worth the hassle though as the oil temp is far more stable.
Trophy is indeed MEMS3 wasted spark with the two coils on the plugs so I can't see that getting in the way.
 

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Can anyone briefly outline the work up involved in retro fitting a TF oil cooler to the F engine please? Ta hugely chaps.
You would need the bracket, the cooler, the pipework and the oil take-off sandwhich plate. in fact I would be inclined to have the PRT fitted too at the same time if you go ahead, then you could just use TF160 pipework throughout.

Neil, as the Trophy has the EU3 engine it has top mounted coils like the TF160, so that shouldn't be an issue.
 

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I'm with Stu on this one. The TF160 oil/water cooler is good enough for normal road use, extended motorway cruising, etc, however for track use on a hot day it can become marginal.

TBH 130 degrees oil temp is not really a good thing since it will cause the oil to degrade and 'varnish' - ideal oil temp is around 105 - 110 degrees.

As has been said Rob Bell has a good fitting guide on his site, although he used the more vulnerable semi-armoured (internally metal braided) hoses. You might like to note that the 'MOCAL' sandwich plate that fits between the oil filter and the block has a built in thermostat.

Given the location of the oil pipes I would recommend using either Aeroquip FC333 or Goodridge 200 racing hose (externally metal braided and internally reinforced hose), along with the lightweight alloy (blue/red anodised) swivel unions.

There are three ways you could go about this:

1. Go to 'Think Automotive' in Isleworth http://www.thinkauto.com/ who are the sole importers of Aeroquip hoses and who manufacture the MOCAL range of oil coolers. They may even already have a 'made-up' kit for the F/TF. (Note: Think also stock Laminova coolers and are the real experts in cooling systems. They are always happy to advise.)

2. Go to 'Merlin Motorsport' at Castle Combe http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/ who will supply you the required unions, etc. You can then trial plumb the car with something like garden hose so you can work out the hose lengths. Merlin will then make up the hoses for you with either re-useable or swaged fittings.

3. Buy a kit (expensive) from Brown and Gammons.


The trick now is in working out what bore of pipe to use, and what size cooler.

I'd guess that on a fast-road / occasional track-day car that a 13 row x 235mm cooler should suffice. Coolers come with either BSP male, JIC (SAE 37) male, Metric female or NPTF female fittings.

(Note: you can also get push-on / jubilee clamp fittings but avoid these like the plague as they have a habit of failing. I know from personal experience having had a hose failure at Mallory Park many moons ago, just as I was negotiating the Lake Esses at speed - having your cooler dump its contents over you front tyres at 120+ mph is not a lot of fun :shake: - apparently the spin was most spectacular!)

Personally I would use JIC fittings since I prefer the way they seal (they were developed for the aviation industry).

With regards to hose bore then, usually, for an engine of around 2L a 5/8" bore (also referred to as 'dash 10') is recommended. However, given the long pipe runs involved, this could well cause an unwanted drop in oil pressure, so 1/2" bore ('dash 8') might be more suitable. Either way, Think or Merlin can advise on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Good info Debs.
Just one query in your last paragraph. 1/2" hose is smaller than 5/8", did you get this the wrong way round.
 

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Good info Debs.
Just one query in your last paragraph. 1/2" hose is smaller than 5/8", did you get this the wrong way round.
If I've read Debs post correctly, I think the smaller 1/2" hose is to help reduce the drop in oil Pressure due to long pipes. So is the correct way round. :dunno:
 

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If I've read Debs post correctly, I think the smaller 1/2" hose is to help reduce the drop in oil Pressure due to long pipes. So is the correct way round. :dunno:

Exactly!

Long hose run + large pipe bore = pressure drop.

Long hose run + small pipe bore = less pressure drop (albeit less flow).
 

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Bigger pipe = lower frictional pressure drop. Trust me ;)

Fairy snuff. :)

Thats why I'd take advice from Think Auto - certainly on the 1380cc Midget race car we were advised to use small bore pipe since experience with large bore pipe showed a greater pressure drop in the main oil gallery (and it's the pressure here that is the important factor as opposed to that in the cooler lines).
 
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