Press release on Midlands today, including what is owed to part suppliers and the pensions. Don't know about you, but that seems like a lot of zeros... 
Liam Olf
G
Yea and unsold stock of 10000 cars - assuming they own them! If they do then at an average of £10000 * 10000 = £100,000,000. + £500m loan to Tectronic
Oops nowhere near enough mind you not as bad at Ford and GM!!
Game was well over for MG Rover
Oops nowhere near enough mind you not as bad at Ford and GM!!
Game was well over for MG Rover
Not a lot really:
£500 miilion - Phoenix Venture Holdings
£400 million - Pensions fund
£40 million - Government in unpaid Tax
The rest to suppliers.
If you think about it PVH will be happy to write off the debt if they can secure a future for MGR. The suppliers will want a deal that will ensure future car production in the UK. The Government will get paid, as they are always first in line when companies go belly up.
£500 miilion - Phoenix Venture Holdings
£400 million - Pensions fund
£40 million - Government in unpaid Tax
The rest to suppliers.
If you think about it PVH will be happy to write off the debt if they can secure a future for MGR. The suppliers will want a deal that will ensure future car production in the UK. The Government will get paid, as they are always first in line when companies go belly up.
Doesn't sound like such a lot compared to $290Bn debt and quarterly loss of $1Bn+ for GM (according to Mauri's post here > http://forums.mg-rover.org/showpost.php?p=848075&postcount=80 )
Perhaps GM will be going down the pan tomorrow though ?
And bear in mind that's quoted here as £1.6Bn "liabilities" - not debt... Is it not the case that liabilities minus assets = debt... or even profit ?
Perhaps GM will be going down the pan tomorrow though ?
And bear in mind that's quoted here as £1.6Bn "liabilities" - not debt... Is it not the case that liabilities minus assets = debt... or even profit ?
The difference is that GM have an estimated $45bn in cash reserves, so they could drift for a few years yet. Not sure about the debt figures quoted, but the losses are certainly of a cosmic scale. They will have to close plants as soon as they can summon the courage. There is talk of closing Buick, Pontiac and Saab. I was talking to a guy from Opel during winter testing this year and he reckoned that they were also being starved by Detroit.
GM quarterly loss of $1Bn+ is about $11m for day, so that figure should be updated nowAMcI-ZS said:
.It was reported today from Bloomberg:
"MG Rover was formed in May 2000 when four businessmen bought Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's Rover Cars for 10 pounds after the unit racked up losses of $6 billion in six years. The four have been criticized by unions for asset-stripping the company." ( http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aIDKfgzsdXHM&refer=uk)
Now I don't remember exactly the numbers, but from the 2000 to the 2004 year MG Rover has reduced its annual losses from about 500m to 75m or so (tomorrow I'll update this info with the right one!), so there was a sort of profit during the last 5 years. And I'm still waiting for to get figures about the so called "number of questions" from FRRP. For example, the £ millions payed every year from MG Rover to Techtronic 2000:
"The Government's inquiry is likely to focus on the complex web of inter-company transactions by the four directors that allowed the group's profitable car leasing and property divisions to be separated from its loss-making car manufacturing operations. It is also likely to examine the way MG Rover paid interest on the £427m loan to a master company, Techtronic 2000, set up by the Phoenix directors, even though the loan itself was interest-free, and the payment by the four directors to themselves of a £10m loan note." (The Independent - 26 May 2005).
Maybe, but given the chance, MG-Rover and its productive partner could have made a brilliant team, whoever it may have been. The fact that you have the man who designed the McLaren F1 as the design team leader should say it all really.Mega said:............and you wonder Why China (Twice) and Proton walked away
Mega
Even you can't deny that...
I'm sure intial drawings of the Gen 2 were enough to put the heebee geebees up anyone, even with the likes of Fat Kev I bet. Rover were aiming too low IMO, how they could even begin to think that the Gen 2 was a worthy replacement to the 25 I do not know.
Probably another one of Howe's ingeniously hairbrained schemes no doubt... :eyes:
Probably another one of Howe's ingeniously hairbrained schemes no doubt... :eyes:
I really don't know about the GEN-2. It depends on what scale. If it was to be a CityRover type makeover, then I agree it would be a disaster.
However, if it was going to be an all new interior, tweeked exterior and transition to the handling similar to the change from the 1999 Rover 45 to the 2001 MG ZS, then I would be reasonably happy. Especially if it meant that MG Rover turned a profit from it. The reports on the GEN-2 that I have read have said the following:
Well-equipped effective budget car - Test Drive Magazine
Poor Refinement, short on space and quality - What Car?
I guess we will never know.
However, if it was going to be an all new interior, tweeked exterior and transition to the handling similar to the change from the 1999 Rover 45 to the 2001 MG ZS, then I would be reasonably happy. Especially if it meant that MG Rover turned a profit from it. The reports on the GEN-2 that I have read have said the following:
Well-equipped effective budget car - Test Drive Magazine
Poor Refinement, short on space and quality - What Car?
I guess we will never know.
Well yeah, the £1.6 bn (even if true) is liabilities not debts, as AMcI-ZS also points out. There's a big difference.Nick Birse said:
Now I'm not saying that the assets of MGR + Powertrain + S'n'R are worth £1.6 bn as they are at present (i.e. an idle plant with most of the workforce gone), because they aren't. But if the MGR companies weren't in administration, even if they were still loss-making, they might well have been worth that to someone who had a plan for what to do with the assets, assuming that RD/X60 and the camless engines were on track. There was cash-flow, which at least enables you to maintain production and keep paying suppliers (until they get nervous...)
Impian = Worthless POS from what I can make out. Depreciation in the UK is crippling as well.Mega said:
Gen-2 = Please don't make me laugh... Post Office bags for seats and wheelie bin plastic for a dash. Terrible...
If thats progress then I'll stick with 1995 Rover 200 thank you very much.
True.
Then again, this is a more dog eat dog market we are in in the UK. Proton, if you care to remember were in a similar situation a few years ago. Selling re-badged Mitsubishi's that went though 3, yes 3 different name changes before being replaced, and one model in particular is still in production if I am not mistaken, namely the Satria/Persona/Compact, whatever you want to call it.
We'll see how long they last for. What I want to know is where they have got their Investment from...
Then again, this is a more dog eat dog market we are in in the UK. Proton, if you care to remember were in a similar situation a few years ago. Selling re-badged Mitsubishi's that went though 3, yes 3 different name changes before being replaced, and one model in particular is still in production if I am not mistaken, namely the Satria/Persona/Compact, whatever you want to call it.
We'll see how long they last for. What I want to know is where they have got their Investment from...
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