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Let's get MGF/TF ownership in perspective

6K views 47 replies 27 participants last post by  CJJ  
#1 ·
What car is an MGF closer to?
A Volvo 240 or a Ferrari Dino?

The answer is of course The Ferrari. Why?
Is it because the Ferrari is red too?
Is it because the MG is a 2 seater sports car too?
Is it because they are both mid-engined ?
Well yes BUT it's because they both demand the same level of care.
The difference is that the Ferrari is costly and the MG is cheap.
Apart from this they are pretty similar in so many ways. Perhaps the MGF/TF is the poorman's Ferrari?

Leave it outside a pub and it'll get scratched. Yes unbeliveably people are jealous.
Leave it in the rain and it'll leak and go rusty. I have seen many really very shabby MGFs.
Abuse the car and it'll go wrong and in a spectacular way. No simple fixes with these poor access to the broken bits too. McGovern really should have designed in a bonnet like the Fiat X1/9 around the base of the hood.

Whilst you can acquire an old MGF for old Volvo 240 money, that and the fact that they both have 4 wheels is just about as close as they come to comparible. They are not the same in just about every other way. You can't expect the same level of reliability or resistance to negligence.

MGFs are not bullet proof. Far from it, they are fragile and they need to be carefully looked after. Nearly everybody on this forum has had a head gasket go and this isn't just the only fail point on the cars. Hydrogas spheres, electrics, coolant systems (part and cause of the HGF issue)

Do not expect to buy an F for sub ÂŁ2000 and expect total reliability, build quality or robustness. In so many ways the MGF/TF is a throwback to the cars of the eighties where things worked...sort of.
If you just put petrol in and drive it will self destruct very quickly. Few and far between are the stories of total reliability without due care and attention.

Whilst Ally's Mr Wriggly has completed collosal miles and proves it is possible it is parked in a garage overnight and Ally is suss enough to head off issues before they become big, also if it does go wrong she knows where to get it fixed. Plus she has been lucky.

Red 19 has been mollycoddled every day of its life from new. It has always been garaged, it never gets used in winter and yet it still has its issues. An erratic Mems, errors on the test book that can't be erased, petrol smell inside (from new) leaky roof in the rain, rattles, clonks and bonks (shock absorbers? apparently not). Things seem to self-destruct all by themselves irrespective of use.

We have MGFs because they are such great fun when they work, they are also a bargain price to ACQUIRE. We have in this forum all you need to know to keep your MGF/TF on the road but if anybody asks me they want a sportscar what should they get. I look them up and down and recommend an MX5.

Owning an MGF/TF takes commitment and engagement. That's half the magic actually. It's like having a child or a dog. It needs constant care and attention. This is why so many of us name our cars.

I would not recommend anybody on a tight budget to get one unless they are a bit handy with spanners ( a lot handy) or unless they get into this forum and have a slush-fund put aside for the inevitable St Russell. Gear lust is also a problem and I apologise for making such shiny exhausts. I won't recommend anyboy who is used to a Micra to get one as it'll make me look bad as their newly acquired car detonates through lack of coolant on the way to an all important meeting/date. These cars are not Micras.

Likewise on a damp morning treat the car with respect or you will be thrown backwards off the road.

Why do we do it?
A mix of child-care, masochism, DIY fetishism, a challenge of will power over mechanical fragility, misguided style victims. Nope it's accelerating away from the lights foot-down towards some great destination, roof off, sun shining, shades on and in my case exhaust blaring (big time).
This isn't motoring...It's Rock and Roll!!
 
#3 ·
100% with you mate!

My MGF was incredibly cheap... and so putting it into perspective, it has cost me a fortune to get it back on the road and fix whatever was wrong on it.

But still cheaper than a new car.

I know I have a 15 year old banger, but it's MY 15 year old banger.

If I have the money for it, I will keep fixing it! This car is a keeper and we all agree on that one.
 
#19 ·
I know I have a 15 year old banger, but it's MY 15 year old banger.

If I have the money for it, I will keep fixing it! This car is a keeper and we all agree on that one.
find a man with a t-type and he`ll tell you its a 50 year old banger , thet are the classics if the future - 30 years agi folks were scrapping MGB`s the F`s time will come and we`ll all be ahead of the crowd one day the price of F`s will be frightening - I really can ever see another car like the F the cheap sorts roadster has had its time but were al in that time and I for one will enjoy every moment of it
 
#5 ·
People think it's 'just another car' and it annoys me slightly when someone can say this flippin' car is nothing but trouble!

I honestly think these cars don't deserve the bad rep they have. They have faults like many more, and components don't fail because of the bad quality of them, they fail partly because of neglect, or because we think it's an everyday car. They fail because wear and tear, they fail because they give more than what they can give, they fail because we expect more of them of what they can really give.

Seized brake callipers, happened to me and I've seen it on many other brands.
HGF, happened to me, and I've also seen it on many other different cars
Sticking TB, not happened to me, but I've also seen it on other cars (even VW's!)
Electrical faults, not happened to me, but I've seen it on many other more expensive cars (Mercs mainly!)

And the list can go on...

Did MGFs have major recalls like the one Honda had with the sticking handbrake? Or the faulty ABS that Merc had on the A-Class? Or the sticky throttle that Toyota have had? Or any other 'rather serious' recalls?

As bad as some may think these cars are, I think they're great.

I'm a biker as many of you may know, and part of being a biker is looking after and doing basic maintenance on your bike, that is to check the tension on the chain, tyre pressures, oil level, coolant level, battery charge, lightbulbs, fuses, know what type of tyres would suit you best, change brake pads...

I see this kind of enthusiasm with these cars, so I'd say anyone with an F or TF that likes to tinker with, is a car purist. A car enthusiast.

My motto is that if I can fix it, why pay someone to do it for me? ANd I laugh at those with BMW Z4's or MX5's or Porsches that TAKE their cars to the dealer just because a low pressure on a tyre, or a bulb has gone, or any other little thing like that that any car enthusiast would look at checking himself.

Owning an F or TF is a hobby, a lifestyle, I chose to live this lifestyle. Did you?
 
#8 ·
Well, the Dino was the first mid engined Ferrari. Before then, all where front engined. And I think the first one with a smaller V6 engine.

It was so good and so light that Lotus took inspiration for their Elise some 20-30 years later. They even 'copied' the round lights at the back of the Elise.

Image


Image


I STILL want a Dino... or an Elise... I suppose the closest I can get to it is with an F.
 
#7 ·
Very very true Neil. I completely agree with you.

Well, except for the poor mans bit. What with the price of chrome and stainless steel, and how we all basically want to rebuild most parts of our cars with said materials.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#11 ·
Reading Neil's opening post, I thought how true his comments are.
I've just come in from the garage having replaced the cracked bottom pulley and seal, oil everywhere, the leaking radiator, put right the alternater cross threaded, wrongly fitted bolts, installed by ba local garage who claim to be MG specialists so that I can now adjust it, and-and-and.
But then I thought, hang on a mo, Iv'e been working on the MGB..............

Some things never change, do they???

Cheers

Mykul
 
#15 ·
Reading Neil's opening post, I thought how true his comments are.
I've just come in from the garage having replaced the cracked bottom pulley and seal, oil everywhere, the leaking radiator, put right the alternater cross threaded, wrongly fitted bolts, installed by ba local garage who claim to be MG specialists so that I can now adjust it, and-and-and.
But then I thought, hang on a mo, Iv'e been working on the MGB..............

Some things never change, do they???

Cheers

Mykul
Its called Heritage. They all do that, sir...
 
#13 ·
Great write up and sums up my feelings about TF ownership.

"I STILL want a Dino... or an Elise... I suppose the closest I can get to it is with an F. "

Over recent years I have had regular use of my friends Lotus S2 111S, and recently was asked by a mate to take deliver one to a dealer in Le Mans, driving from Manchester/Dover/Le Mans. The experience left me in doubt that I would not swap my TF for an Elise. Great track day car though..Mike
 
#16 ·
Well.. I suppose the F/TF is a rather detuned more civilised and more day-to-day version and the Elise is at the other end of the radical range of what is possible with the similar bits.

I could start comparing both and possibly someone may come up and 'beat me with with some sense' but the F is that tad bit more civilised, a bit more refined I'd say (with the few extra commodities).

It's like having a sports bike and a naked bike. A sports bike is a road bike that was designed on the track. A naked bike is the 'detuned' version of that bike designed to be on the road.
 
#22 ·
That's a great treatise Neil!
I get the unreliable British car comments here too, usually from people who have never owned one but I just say, "It's not just transportation, It's a hobby"
By the time I got my 1500 quid MGF here on the other side of the world, registered, and sorted out for the road I was in it for $10,000. and I still think it's a bargain. Particularly when I see it next to an MX-5 or a Z-3. They don't even compare! I have no problem doing my own work on the car, and for that matter the jobs I have done so far have all been straight forward. The car is no more difficult to work on than the average Japanese or American car, and has no-where near the complexity for complexity's sake of most of the European cars that we get here. (Mostly higher end models with the exception of the Fiat 500 and the VW Golf/Jetta)
I love my MGF and never get tired of looking at it. (Except that rusty dog-leg panel!)

Cheers,
Rich
 
#26 ·
My MX5 did 180k miles and was totally knackered. My TF135 is at 155k and is running better than ever. It sits outside in all weathers and is used for my 130mile commute all year. I don't drive it gently. Fit the LR head gasket and then just make sure it is properly serviced and they are as bullet proof as any car you could name. When you do need to replace anything, the parts are cheap as chips. 10 Years as an Army mechanic taught me that vehicles that are used regularly are much more reliable than those that are not. Seals, rugber pipes etc deteriorate if they just sit there.

Top tip: buy an electric spray gun and everytime you change the oil, mix about 10% diesel with the old oil and spray the whole underside. Make sure you use proper breathing protection.
 
#29 ·
Hmm

Apart from the cooling system maladies, which I would put down to poor components, is there really much difference reliability wise on the motor of these from any other K series engined car?

The reason I ask is that I have had all manner of Rovers and apart from the more complex cooling system and exposed Coil Pack on the F, it looks the same to me. All the K series cars I have owned proved to be reliable on balance, the only issues I have ever had apart from the cooling system leaks/maintenance has been wet starting which is quickly solved by renewing plug leads every 3 years.......and if still an issue changing the coil pack.

I struggle to think of any major issues mechanically providing regular servicing is done and I have and always have used my cars every day typically covering 20k a year.

My brothers love of Alfa's in comparison has been a nightmare and a moneypit!!
 
#30 ·
Hmmm. My TF160 is closer than you might think to a Ferrari Dino when you look at the stats.

1969 Ferrari Dino 246 GT

Information Summary

Body: fixed-head coupé
Length: 4234 mm
Weight: 1080 kg
Engine Capacity: 2419 cc
Cylinders: V6
Max. Power: 197.7 PS / 195 bhp / 145.4 kW @ 7600 rpm
Max. Torque: 225.0 Nm / 166 ft.lb / 22.9 kgm @ 5500 rpm
Acceleration: 0-60 mph in 7.10 seconds


I would rather have the TF to be honest.

Not a huge fan of Ferrari and the only upside would be the bragging rights....a lot of money for bragging rights.

I think the TF would outhandle the Ferrari, considering it's suspension and huge profile tyres.

They are probably on the same reliability scale, but I would rather pay for a new engine for the TF than for the Dino.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Whilst I agree there is a cost difference running a Dino compared with a TF I find that really odd. However cars are so subjective, but a Dino vs a TF :dunno:

For me money no object a Dino but then I bought an Alfa Spider over a TF/F. I would have the Alfa everyday of the week over a TF/F, but not a Dino :)
 
#34 ·
a round of applause for neil ........and only a slight mention of exhausts...lol
whether you have the money or not . the passion to keep these cars going is certainly evident on here
yes they do need the upkeep, but keep on top of little problems and most of the time you will get away with the major ones.....i said MOST...
not everybody is handy with a spanner but i had years in an engineering background so for me it is an easy option to do it myself... ok it now take me 10 times longer due to health problems but i get there

keep up the good work everybody and happy motoring

Paul D
 
#36 · (Edited)
They are chalk and cheese because one is in access of a ÂŁ100K and one is not.
I have never driven a TF/F or Dino, I have driven a Ferrari though. A Ferrari is not the car for everyone as a TF/F is not the car for everyone.

I am biased because I love Italian cars therefore money no object (I could never afford a Dino) and the choice between a Dino and an MG I would have the Ferrari because driving one makes me feel very much alive. If you have to explain the reason you would have one car over the next then the point will be missed.

I am guessing myself or you could write the MG off and not be too worse off but I bet there are plenty less wealthy people who would completely disagree with that. There are people whom it would hurt them just as much as you or me on a Dino (if you or I could afford one, I could not as mentioned).

You can't factor in the money when comparing the cars in this manner.

Is the Dino better to drive? For me the answer would be yes. Ferraris make me feel good.
Is it faster? I have no idea and don't care, the sense of occasion being sat in the Dino and hearing the glorious V6 would surpass any performance difference anyway.
Is it cheaper to run? Obviously not :lol:
Is it cheaper to buy? Obviously not.
Is it because it is a Ferrari? I suppose for me and to a point yes, though I used to prefer American muscle until I bought the Mondial.
Is it so that you can tell others that you have a Ferrari? No I don't tell many that I own/ed a Ferrari unless it comes up in conversation.
Does the logo mean that much? As much I guess as an MG logo means to some I suppose.

A minor ding for the record would not cost that much more than one on an MG. A new panel is another matter. In fact some MG's are so cheap a minor ding might well officially write one off.

As I said, I bought an Alfa over an MG. I had driven neither until I bought the Alfa (and still have never been in or driven an MGF/TF)!
 
#37 ·
I totally agree that you need to be a high-grade nut case to keep an F/TF - there's no rational argument possible to support the activity. Just proves grins are priceless, and there's nothing like a good grumble. I've just frightened myself totting up what mine's cost - about ÂŁ9.60/day for 13 years:scary:
PS - don't tell the wife
 
#43 ·
nice post Neil

the only thing wrong with the f and tf was its heratage british leyland then rover then mg rover they never sorted the problems
then you had the friday car monday car ect just poorly put together and accepted sub standard parts
my dad had a mg montego 2.0 but after a year got rid as fed up of the problems

i had a rover SD1 3.5SE lovely car 180k strong and fast only the rust got it in the end at 16 years old
but the design was always good
we have a red f had it for 8 years 12k on the clock when we got it, now 50k 1 hgf and limited servecing never failed the mot outside all year ect so there are good ones and bad ones and realy crapy ones
we willl try to keep but need reliable cars for work so yep not a poor mans car as you need lots of cash to look after them
but are fun to drive and since we had the the first f and loosing my blue one as to problematic i would never go back to a tin top but i still smile when i see a F/TF

may be gone but never forgotten tahitiblue mgf x575fby :broon:


oh by the way is my old blue F is it fixed yet ???
 
#44 ·
just to remind you all CSutcliffe and I compared an MGF to a Ferrari

In many ways they are similarish but it's the brand.

If it had a Ferrari badge on the front it would be another world of value! The MG badge has an interesting brand value. In Australia S1D tells me Red19 would be worth getting on for ÂŁ10k. Its a similar story across Europe and the rest of the world.

I really think there is something wrong with the British psyche.
Why do we always think other people's stuff is better?

Small German Cars are nearly all as dull as ditchwater. Well made~ish but dull dull dull. I ask you, where is the magnificence of an Audi TT? Its just a Golf (THE singularly most boring car in the world) in drag.
French cars are cheaply made and fall apart even faster than the old MGR stuff used to.
Italian cars similar but recently they've had a dose of the German and have swapped a bit of welcome reliablity perhaps for a little teutonic staidness.
Japanese just don't understand styling, they never did and despite their cars working fine they never really get it right stylewise

So we can expand the arguement further. If we didn't think everybody else's stuff was better we would have a bigger manufacturing industry left in UK. We wouldnt worship the banks so much, and just LOOK how they sold us down the river! and we would invest in new manufacturing facilities and put capable people in charge of them.

Dreadnoughts worked, Sptifires Worked, Chieftan Tanks Worked, MGF/TFs mostly work. But we have no more MGF/TFs being made.

1. Because MG Motors were crap at marketing them
2. Because we always think other people's stuff is better
 
#45 ·
Still amazes me how many people dont know they are mid engined..

I had the bonnet up the other day fitting the single wiper conversion.. old boy walks by.. peers under the bonnet and asks 'wheres the engine?'

I said 'ive put it in the dishwasher as its all dirty'

His face was a picture