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cityrover
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Hey let's not get bogged down...tonight is the worst in my life (for cars anyway) but they've risen before...this may be the opportunity for better things without some of the 'lead weight's that have stopped this company moving forward

Remember the Phoenix.......they have not gone into administration.......
 

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RichardK said:
Hey let's not get bogged down...tonight is the worst in my life (for cars anyway) but they've risen before...this may be the opportunity for better things without some of the 'lead weight's that have stopped this company moving forward

Remember the Phoenix.......they have not gone into administration.......
OK, so if it's just MG Rover Group that has gone into administration, then what now, PVH own the MG badge, BMW own the Rover badge, so there's nothing to stop PVH building cars under those names.

Who actually owns the rights to the Rover/MG range of cars and who owns Longbridge, is it MG Rover Group, or is it PVH ?

If it's PVH, then I assume MGR Group would just be building these cars under licence from PVH, a novel, but interesting arrangement.

I'm thinking back to when the P4 took over the remains of The Rover Group from BMW, everyone said they would go into administration within 6 months, so surely the company was structured that even with some of PVHs' companies going under (MG Rover Group for instance) the intellectual property, engine and gearbox manufacture or car finance business wouldn't be affected, all of which are either worth money or profitable on their own.
 

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But How? not being pessamistic just curios... is there a future? how ballsed up is all of this?

(edit) meant to be after post number two but got beaten to it :)

-Rob-
 

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The ideal plan is to retain as much car production as possible at Longbridge, I expect loss making lines may be halted as soon as possible which sadly means goodbye to the 25/ZR/45/ZS however there may be hope for the 75/ZT, TF and SV as MGR make a profit on these ranges.
 

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I wouldn't write off the 25/45/ZR/ZS as without these ranges. They make a contribution toward overheads and a rather useful one at that... take them away and the 75/ZT line may become unprofitable :err:

John
 

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Nick Birse said:
OK, so if it's just MG Rover Group that has gone into administration, then what now, PVH own the MG badge, BMW own the Rover badge, so there's nothing to stop PVH building cars under those names.

Who actually owns the rights to the Rover/MG range of cars and who owns Longbridge, is it MG Rover Group, or is it PVH ?

If it's PVH, then I assume MGR Group would just be building these cars under licence from PVH, a novel, but interesting arrangement.

I'm thinking back to when the P4 took over the remains of The Rover Group from BMW, everyone said they would go into administration within 6 months, so surely the company was structured that even with some of PVHs' companies going under (MG Rover Group for instance) the intellectual property, engine and gearbox manufacture or car finance business wouldn't be affected, all of which are either worth money or profitable on their own.
We've only seen the 2003 accounts/annual report, so we don't know quite how PVH is structured at present. Like you say, it would be fascinating if the assets have been reallocated in an advantageous way.

It's late, and I'm tired and emotional (aren't we all?) so I might get some of this wrong from memory, but

- Say that it is MG Rover (the actual car manufacturer, which has to start repaying the BMW loan as soon as it makes a profit) which is in administration...what assets does MG Rover itself actually have?

- The engines & gearboxes are manufactured by Powertrain, which is a separate company within PVH. Who owns the tooling & equipment?

- PVH owns the freehold on the Powertrain plant (through which subsidiary though?) but only lease the MG Rover car site, so that land isn't an asset

- And say that all the IP for the RD/X60 | Nexus (and maybe existing models) is not owned by MG Rover, but PVH or one of its other subsidiaries?

- Presumably the SV tooling and IP is owned by MG Sports & Racing?

- The trademarks (MG, Austin, Austin-Healey, Wolseley) are all registered to MG Rover, though (or at least they were a couple of weeks ago - the Patent Office trademarks site is 'down' tonight)

- So, I don't know what to make of all that, but there's possibly not that many assets to MG Rover's name itself... might be optimistic though.

And as far as I'm hearing on Newsnight just now, MG Rover is definitely not in administration...
 

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I suppose it's all in the hands of the Accountants (Administrators) now, hopefully they can find buyers for the both marques (Rover and MG) and hopefully both marques can remain together.

Perhaps the Phoenix 4 will expand the profitable MG X Power brand (MG Sports & Racing Ltd) to include the TF and ZT models.
 

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I think its more likely to go into Receivership when Price House Water Coopers arrive tomorrow morning at Longbridge.

The board have asked PWC to assess the situation. Administration is 1 route, where PWC will take control of the company or (more likely I think) they will call in the recievers. Thus all stuff will be sold off in order to pay the creditors, Im rather unhappy to say.
 

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My theory - MGR into administration means B*W don't get their loan back.

Rover name is put on the shelf (seriously damaged, owned by B*W anyway). PVH 'restructure' with MG as a niche brand, reduced workforce.
MGR have clearly stated tonight that THEY haven't gone into admin'n, only asked PWC to look at the company.

THE DTI ARE LYING!
 

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This is an interesting thread.

What we have to remember is that Phoenix Venture Holdings is a very complex company, and even though the Phoenix 4 have been slated, it maybe that their shrewdness may result in a positive outcome.

Lets face it, I know it is very sad for the workers, but that pension millstone around MG Rovers neck is one that any company would love to be rid of. An incarnation of MG relaunched by Phoenix would be rid of those obligations.

Don't forget that Phoenix Venture Holdings probably own:

Austin
Austin-Healey
MG
Morris
Sterling
Wolseley

Alot of scope for a reincarnation!
 

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I think you will find that what ever happens, the Directors will get a very good return on the £10.00 they paid BMW (spit) and once again, good old English Directors have lined themselves up first and formost to profit, rather than concentrating on building a business with solid foundations. I am close to tears as i write this, so sorry to see the names go.
 

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Don't forget Directors of a company can NOT run a company if they know it to be running in insolvency, it is a criminal offence. This leads the pheonix group with a very difficult decision indeed.
 

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There are many possible ways forward from here, and many reasons to be optimistic.

Yes, Rover may have to go, but MG Saloons and sportscars may well rise out of all this. ZT/V8 TF and SV would be a good starting point. Don't forget, as Dan pointed out that many things are out of ownership of MGR the car making bit.

Added: BBC NEWS 24 right this moment - MGR still not in administration. They are asking PriceWaterhouseCoopers for advice tomorrow. Once again, Patricia Hewitt has fecked up, the stupid hapless old bitch. They have not yet, catergorically not yet called in administrators.

Oh well, Labour's a joke anyway. P. Hewitt couldn't deal a pack of cards, let alone a multimillion pound bridging loan.

Simon.
 

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Don't forget that Phoenix Venture Holdings probably own:

Austin
Austin-Healey
MG
Morris
Sterling
Wolseley
Well they were all listed as registered trademarks to MG Rover rather than Phoenix, but maybe they've been transferred very recently...the online database is notoriously out of date.

I wonder, even if they did salvage something and avoid the pensions, would there be such a stigma attached because of this that it would still attract just the same (or worse) levels of press criticism?
 

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This is a tragedy. And remember just 5 years ago the mess Byers made. Deja Vu? It's the workers I feel sorry for. For the sake of, let's face it, not much money on the scale of things, they might lose 6,000 jobs. Fingers crossed they can salvage as much as possible and keep as many as possible in gainful employment.

Anthony.
 

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Simon said:
There are many possible ways forward from here, and many reasons to be optimistic.

Yes, Rover may have to go, but MG Saloons and sportscars may well rise out of all this. ZT/V8 TF and SV would be a good starting point. Don't forget, as Dan pointed out that many things are out of ownership of MGR the car making bit.

Added: BBC NEWS 24 right this moment - MGR still not in administration. They are asking PriceWaterhouseCoopers for advice tomorrow. Once again, Patricia Hewitt has fecked up, the stupid hapless old bitch. They have not yet, catergorically not yet called in administrators.

Oh well, Labour's a joke anyway. P. Hewitt couldn't deal a pack of cards, let alone a multimillion pound bridging loan.

Simon.
Perhaps we might see half the staff being laid off, the Rover brand being killed off and MG taking over as the sole brand at Longbridge, if PVH have kept all the assets away from the dying MG Rover Group, have they kept all the money away too ?

Is the JV still on, albeit without a pension black hole and a £500 million loan to BMW to worry about, a situation where PVH can say "sign or sod off" to SAIC (and with better terms) ?
 

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From tomorrow's Independent:

In addition, their investment vehicle Phoenix Venture Holdings will keep a 25 per cent stake in any Chinese joint venture likely to be worth at least £50m, according to industry experts...Rover sources have reportedly said that, after the deal with the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation, the Phoenix Four would continue to control a number of valuable businesses and assets that will be omitted from the joint venture. They include two MG car models, Rover"s car showroom and financing businesses as well as Studley Castle " a £5m stately home in Warwickshire.
 

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Nick Birse said:
Perhaps we might see half the staff being laid off, the Rover brand being killed off and MG taking over as the sole brand at Longbridge, if PVH have kept all the assets away from the dying MG Rover Group, have they kept all the money away too ?

Is the JV still on, albeit without a pension black hole and a £500 million loan to BMW to worry about, a situation where PVH can say "sign or sod off" to SAIC (and with better terms) ?
Quite possibly.
 
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