MG-Rover.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, I have just bought my 1998 Rover Vi (bubble):D after waiting all day at the garage for the MOT. Eventually the dealer admitted the car was failing on emmisions and it was offered to me with the original MOT till November for £300 off the price (£1650), only £1350 paid.

When I did a test drive on the vehicle it was idling at 1100-1200 revs I mentioned this and they said it would be fixed and it hasn't. They told me that a new idle control valve had been fitted and that the revs were normal. The dealer fixed all other issues on the MOT (tyres, brakes etc..) and explained that the wrong plugs had been installed and these were changed as this could have also effected the emmisions apparently, but it still failed. The car has a sort of performance filter fitted and has had a few other mods that I have no reciepts for.

The dealer was advised by the garage that the car has had performance cams fitted (sounds amazing) and this is what is effecting the emmisions could this be true and if so will the £300 saving cover the cost of fixing it? I love this car and desperatly want to keep it but if it can not be fixed the dealer have offered to take it back of me.

Also sometimes the engine can not find the idle speed and dies at the most inconvenient times usually when I am in traffic and I have to floor the accelerator for it to start again which it always does. I have reset the stepper motor and it doesn't seem to cut out so often however the car never starts without the use of the accelerator and it still idles high!

Please help most people would have run a mile but I love this car and desperately want to keep it please tell me it can be fixed!

P.s Drives superb and is fitted with the BRM alloys (unmarked)

Many Thanks in anticipation Fred Vi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
Your poor emissions and poor starting problems are most likily caused by a faulty coolant temp sensor, does the fan stay on all the time?

maps sensor could also be duff, needs to go on a fault code reader.

i wouldnt of thought it would cost 300 to fix thou, sensors are cheap and a dealer would charge £30 to put it on the diagnostic machine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply, Would I have to take the car to a rover dealer or do other garages have the diagnostic tools required. And yes the fan seems to stay on all the time when the car has been running for only a short while. The radiator also needs replacing by the looks of it, however the tenperature guage reeds normal all the time. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,451 Posts
call me stupid here, but performance cams on the vvc engine?

im not sure about that one.


dodgy idle? check throttle pot. I would replace it, worth a shot.

cheers

Ben.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
right well your problem is 99% sure to be the coolant temp sensor seeing as your fan is running all the time. When the sensor fails or is disconnected the ecu tells the fan to run all the time. It will also tell the ecu to fuel the car as if it is running at 60c all the time which will explain all your poor running problems and high emissions.

First port of call for you is to pop the bonnet and you will see that on the right handside of the engine closest to you some hoses. Theres the main one that goes to the top of the radiator . Where this hose connects to the engine you have whats called the coolant elbow and this is where all the coolant temps sensors are. You can see on the photo i have linked to that theres a brown sensor plugged into the elbow and if i remember correctly theres is another sensor as well for the dashboard temp gauge. It would be worth taking the connectors off and giving them a clean and a spray of wd40 or some other electrical cleaner spray.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/11713085378.jpg&s=x402

See how it works after that, it could be as simple as someone not clipping them in 100% or a dirty connection. If not then you most likily need to replace the sensor which is when i last checked about £10 from bestofbritish.co.uk. Its an easy fix but will require a coolant change or very quick hands.

The other thing that could cause high emisions is a knackered lambda sensor which is abit more of a pain to fix and more expensive but i would say its coolant temp sensor failure.

if you need any help dont be afraid to ask
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
nebburns said:
call me stupid here, but performance cams on the vvc engine?

im not sure about that one.


dodgy idle? check throttle pot. I would replace it, worth a shot.

cheers

Ben.
lol it be about right that the dealer told the garage its fitted with variable valve cams and theyve taken that as a performance cams instead of it just being a standard engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks I will have a go at cleaning the sensors tomorrow.

I have recently sold my Fiat Bravo HGT 20v (cam issues), wanting something similar I bought the Vi, I am not a speed freak but the performance lags untill the high revs, could this be due to the dodgey temp sensor. Also can anyone explain why the insurance is higher for the Rover Vi?

Unsure of where to find throttle pot so I will mention to mechanic on wednesday, any idea of cost?

Trust me to fall for the performance cam line..... lol

Many Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,606 Posts
Just replace the coolant temp sensor. It is under a tenner and cleaning it won't help. There are a couple of different types so look at the colour of your existing one

The car may have performance cams fitted to it (instead of the VVC ones), so that may be true, and depending on their profile they might make emissions limits difficult to achieve. However if the fan is running all the time then I'd definatly suspect the coolant temperature sensor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
It wont have performance cams fitted because then it would be a solid cam conversion that would require a differant ecu and loads of other stuff. The best you can do on a vvc is get the exhaust one reprofiled.

Its worth cleaning the connector because it could easily be clipped onto the sensor but not fully enough for a good signal back to the ecu.

Hope you get it sorted soon, mate. I find my 200vi really shifts if you hold it at say 4000rpm in 2nd and then put your foot to the floor you should feel it really kick in and push you into your seat. The vvc kicks in between 4000-7000rpm so if you arent in the correct gear its very easy to get made to look foolish by other cars!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,114 Posts
markforrester said:
The vvc kicks in between 4000-7000rpm so if you arent in the correct gear its very easy to get made to look foolish by other cars!

thought vvc was a gradual not like the VTec VVT thingy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
O.k car due in tomorrow for replacement c/t/sensor, mechanic believes the problem to be with the coolent system however he warned me the problem may be within the head as he has seen this before on a 214, is this likely or is he trying to scare me? Can you also confirm that the sensor I am replacing is the browny coloured one at the front and not the blue one that is harder to reach?

He also commented on how new the throttle body looked and he twiddled with a skrew on top, no joy though other than cutting out (still ides 1100revs).

The exhaust system seems standard other than having one of those loud back box's that to be honest sounds rubbish and the mechanic said that from the rear it sounded like it misfired (very jurky).

The car pins me to the back of the seat at around 5000 revs on mine but then nothing can keep up however I wonder if the larger wheels (BRM alloys) effect that too?

Also due for another mot tomorrow on a different machine so if anyone has any bright ideas (premium fuel, redex, e.t.c) looking for any ideas!

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
E_T_V said:
Just replace the coolant temp sensor. It is under a tenner and cleaning it won't help. There are a couple of different types so look at the colour of your existing one

The car may have performance cams fitted to it (instead of the VVC ones), so that may be true, and depending on their profile they might make emissions limits difficult to achieve. However if the fan is running all the time then I'd definatly suspect the coolant temperature sensor.
If the sensor does not cure the problem will my mechanic be able to tell if it has been fitted with preformance cams? Is it easy enough to revert back too vvc cams?

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
If your car is fitted with performance cams then no its not easy to revert back to vvc but i really cant see your car having performance cams. You cant touch the vvc inlet cams because they are designed specifically for the vvc system.

You can buy a kit from DVA to go from Variable valve control to solid cam but if your car had that fitted it would feel completely differant, aftermarket cams have a habit of making you lose low down power and then coming alive near the end of the rev range, because of this normally people opt for a mapable ecu so they can get some driveablity back in the lower rev range and adjust timing and fueling to suit.

With VVC you get the best of both worlds, you get the kick in the back at 4000rpm when the 16valves start to come into there own and then the vvc adjusts the cam timing upto the limiter so that you can make nice smooth power. The way it delivers the power is great but its far too easy to find yourself on the wrong side of the speed limit and feel like you are coasting!. Mine will see 110 all day long at about 5000rpm and still wants to go more.

ive just checked my workshop manual and the brown sensor in the photo is shown in the manual as ECT engine coolant temperature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,606 Posts
If your engine idle speed is above 1000 when hot, and the radiator fan is running all the time then it is almost certainly a coolant temperature sensor. (There are two, one for the gauge and the other for the ECU). You want the ECU one. To check simply remove the plug from one and observe the gauge. If it drops then you want the other one!

When the coolant temp sensor goes faulty the ECU recognises this and goes into a fail safe mode. This means that the car is permenantly "on choke" so you get lots of petrol emissions in the exhaust failing mot tests and the idle speed is raised up to above 1000 (as it does when you start your car from cold). It also runs the cooling fan permenantly as it can no longer tell when the coolant is getting too hot so it over cools the engine rather than letting it overheat.

From the symptoms you describe I'd be 95% sure a new coolant temp sensor should sort it all out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
E_T_V said:
To check simply remove the plug from one and observe the gauge. If it drops then you want the other one!
Why didn't I think of that nice one :iwstupid:
Got the right one pheww. Thanks E T V
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The coolent sensor has been changed and the fan now switches off at intervals also it seems to start easier (revs still needed). The car then had an mot which it seemed to pass on everything including emmisions however the cars high idle is there and the test could not be completed.

The mechanic seemed to try everything to lower the idle but could not achieve this without the engine cutting out. It has a K&N air filter on the throttle body instead of the standard one could this be causing high idle times, also he commented on how new the throttle body looked and how the idle control valve looked like it hadn't been changed despite me being told otherwise. Could the other garage have gotten confused and changed the wrong part in other words could a faulty idle control valve cause the problems I am having?

The car is now idling higher than ever as the mechanic could not get it back down to 1100 revs it is now at 1600-2000 and I am furious that I have had to pay in total £111.20. I have booked it in tomorrow for a diognostics (£35) but it is looking like no one can fix my car as I believe it has been messed around with too much.

Also a little concearned to let rover fix the car due to my tight budget if the T4 machine comes back with no results. Will they rip me off just to look further in to it like the garage today? Maybe I should just get rid!

Please help!!!! Missus won't let me keep if I can't get an mot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,748 Posts
Ditch the K&N airfilter, it runs to hot way back there on the Vi.

Unless you have some serious cash stick to a standard airbox with a panel filter, you are losing power with the K&N 57i induction kit..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,748 Posts
fred vi said:
The car pins me to the back of the seat at around 5000 revs on mine but then nothing can keep up however I wonder if the larger wheels (BRM alloys) effect that too?
205/45R16 are the correct tyres sizes for the Brm, keep the speedo accurate and doesnot harm acceration much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,606 Posts
Not sure if it works on the VVC cars but have you tried resetting the stepper motor?

(switch igntition on - depress throttle fully and release 5 times in quick sucession - you'll know when you get it right as you'll hear the clickclickclick of the stepper motor resetting itself. Then start the car)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
487 Posts
Try with the engine running at idle disconnecting the idle air control valve loom plug and see what happens, if the revs drop then it suggest you could have a problem with the following

-Throttle cable too tight which is holding it slightly open when the car is running so it idles high. Plastic Throttle bodies have a habit of sticking if yours is plastic
-A damaged vacum hose or poorly connect vacum hose allowing air to enter the inlet manifold and cause the rough running
-Lambda sensor not working so the ecu is not leaning off the mixture
-Faulty IACV
-faulty map sensor

I think your best bet is to look at the two top things, If they are both fine then your only choice is to put it on a fault code reader. This way you will know for sure whats going on with the car.

I hope its something simple thou, if by the way you do disconnect the idle air control valve plug and it runs better then leave it off and see if the emissions go down enough for it to pass. Too much air entering the engine will mess the mixture up causing an mot failure
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top