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[HELP NEEDED] After HG change car is leaking coolant from the cylinder head

6797 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Jonj1611
2
Coolant leak after HEAD GASKET CHANGE

Hi, I did change the head gasket on my ROVER 200 RF (214 SI), motor code 14K4F, 16v, 103HP, year 1996.

I've used:
a new MLS GASKET SET
new head locating dowels.
new design (shorter) head bolts
new oil rail LCN 000140 L

the head has been skimmed.
new cambelt, crankshaft timing gear and pulley
new oil filter
new inlet manifold gasket
new exhaust manifold gasket
new o-rings for thermostat housing cover + black silicone liquid gasket (used only on the coolant rail side)
oil 10w40 and OAT red coolant



I've torqued head bolts using the three stage sequence:

20 nm + 180 + 180

and tightened up using the sequence shown below:






Now the problems:

Coolant leak 1:
She's suffering a minor coolant leak located on the left lower corner of the head, near the alternator and below exhaust manifold flange. Leak is slow but steady, it occurs even when the motor is switched off and even after some days of inactivity.
You can have a better sight looking at the picture shown below:




Coolant leak 2:
It is located under the thermostat. I can see a thin stream of coolant flowing down the cylinder block, I think this leak might originate from the water pump hole or the rusted coolant rail or thermostat housing cover.

Overheating:
Motor starts overheating after about 25-30 minutes on idle or while I'm doing parking manoeuvres. Temperature gauge never reached the red zone, it just settles above the middle, then radiator's fan starts and it returns to its normal position.

Car is responsive, no lack of power, it just overheats. The colour of coolant is red, no signs of cross-contamination. Oil's colour is ok, translucent.



What can I do?
I'm thinking about removing the thermostat and let she survive without it awaiting the end... or maybe should I re-tight headbolts a 90° more?
What about K-SEAL??
What about the water pump?


I really need help, my car is nearly 15 years old but I still love it, yeah, I know I'm crazy, but trying to repair it myself was a sort of mystical experience.. even if I failed.

Sorry for my english and thank you for your answers.
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I've just found 2 pics that show a leak identical to my Coolant leak 1:


Bear in mind that the engine mount and other wheels etc for power steering will hamper your view of the waterpump a little.

I'd say waterpump has gone myself.

Check along the joins of the engine...where the cylinder head meets the bottom end, where the head gasket is and see if there's ANY signs of coolant there.

These pictures (on another thread) is not my car but shows where the coolant can leak from. It can be anywhere around the engine at that join so check as much as you can see.




Thanks to markus250.


This evening I'll try to take pictures of my leaks and post it here.
There is a lot of this type of failure about. Did you use a Payen gasket or a copy? Was the block face cleaned down to bright metal?

Your choice now is to -

1. Leave it for a while and see if it gets better. A couple of reports say that theirs sealed up after a couple of days running.

2. Use some K seal or similar in it. Always a bit hesitant about suggesting this, but it is one case where it might be the answer.

3. Strip and fit a new gasket.
Hmm mine is leaking from the same area and i havent touched mine would be nice to know why, mine never overheats just after some time the coolant will drop abit
The only thing that springs to my mind
What were the liner hights like ? if one was low then is it possible that the affected cylinder is pressurising the water system?
another suggestion could the block be warped? never come across a warped one but a first time for everything.
Just another thought, could you have damaged the gasket when refitting the head ie did you rest the head on the gasket then slide/wiggle the head arround while trying to locate it on the dowles.
All a little off beat ideas i know but something must be causing the leak.
Hmm mine is leaking from the same area and i havent touched mine would be nice to know why, mine never overheats just after some time the coolant will drop abit
This is also the area where old gaskets tend to leak from. It needs a new one fitting before it lets go and catches you out.
The only thing that springs to my mind
What were the liner hights like ? if one was low then is it possible that the affected cylinder is pressurising the water system?
another suggestion could the block be warped? never come across a warped one but a first time for everything.
Just another thought, could you have damaged the gasket when refitting the head ie did you rest the head on the gasket then slide/wiggle the head arround while trying to locate it on the dowles.
All a little off beat ideas i know but something must be causing the leak.
Dirty block or damaged gasket are possibilities, but I doubt that it is anything to do with liner heights or coolant pressure.
It is odd that all the reports of new gaskets leaking are from the same area near the exhaust.
22
Today was a bad day:
while trying to jump-start my dear in order to investigate the leaks, for unknown reasons (......) I connected cable red + to battery - and cable black - to battery + (lol but sad), the under bonnet ceramic BATTERY 80A fuse had blown up instantly, after that, horns suddendly kicked in .... Turned off key then I tried to reconnect cables in the right order but car didn't start (horns quiet this time), I could hear fuel pump but no starter motor noise... dashboard battery light was blinking. Maybe something rather than that 80A fuse has been damaged? Is it a common fuse or am I forced to buy it from a Rover dealer? Here's some pics of it:


It was an epic fail indeed.



There is a lot of this type of failure about. Did you use a Payen gasket or a copy? Was the block face cleaned down to bright metal?

Your choice now is to -

1. Leave it for a while and see if it gets better. A couple of reports say that theirs sealed up after a couple of days running.

2. Use some K seal or similar in it. Always a bit hesitant about suggesting this, but it is one case where it might be the answer.

3. Strip and fit a new gasket.
I used a copy bought on ebay, dealer's name is gasketsforclassics.co.uk, you can see the hg here. I hope it could seal itself, I did almost 40 KM since hg change. At first there were no leaks, then it started leaking near exhaust manifold, then it dried/crystallized and stopped. Next day started again.
The face block was cleaned down to bright metal :(. I'll try choice 1 then if it fails choice 2.

* Do you think re-tightening headbolts in sequence a 90° more would help?
Or
* What about tightening only bolt 10? Maybe 25° at a time.




The only thing that springs to my mind
What were the liner hights like ? if one was low then is it possible that the affected cylinder is pressurising the water system?
another suggestion could the block be warped? never come across a warped one but a first time for everything.
Just another thought, could you have damaged the gasket when refitting the head ie did you rest the head on the gasket then slide/wiggle the head arround while trying to locate it on the dowles.
All a little off beat ideas i know but something must be causing the leak.
I measured liner heights with a feeler gauge and it seemed to be within tolerance.
Cylinder block looked weird nearby its thin edges (exhaust and inlet sides), I think the right term to describe it is "porosity", it had little craters in it, but not in proximity of the exhaust manifold corner where is leaking currently, to be honest alloy nearby the exhaust leak (see markus pic above) looked bright and clean, without signs of corrosion/porosity. Maybe the block could be warped, I should have measured it with a steel ruler before doing the job. Cylinder head had lil craters too, fire rings were ok, head was skimmed then reassembled by a official Rover mechanic chief. Craters on cylinder block (exhaust/inlet thin edges) were completely crusted by crystallized cooalnt, had to remove this crystallization in order to have a flat bright surface.
I did take extreme care handling the gasket (and head saver shim) and there was no problem to fit it into dowels (no slide/wiggle). Appearance of the gasket seemed fine, no signs of distortion, cracks, etc.




I've taken few pics of thermostat and inlet manifold, click thumbnails below to enlarge images:




In addition, my car always suffered from weird electrical problem that makes rad and A/C fans start totally randomly, could this be related with overheating?
Yellow rad fan can only work at low speed, while black A/C fan runs at high speed.


Your answers are very appreciated, thank you guys. Have a nice weekend.
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Just a thought but something I noticed when doing my HG was changing from the plastic to steel dowels, the steel dowels are a much tighter fit in the block/head locating hole - where the holes completely clean? thinking if there was dirt in the hole, the head may not be seated properly:dunno:
Do not attempt to retighten the head bolts, they are already tightened to yield so you can not increase the load any further, the bolts just deform more.
Double check the leak isn't from inlet gasket - leaks here often show as apparent coolant leaks from the transfer pipe area, or around that front corner of the block.
Today I found out that the leak under the thermostat was caused by a pierced coolant rail, I'm going to fix it and change the thermostat too, I hope overheating was caused by that.

Also I'll try to investigate coolant leak 1, I'll remove exhaust manifold to see from where it is leaking, could be from the coolant elbow, water pump or inlet manifold gasket??? It leaks only when the motor is dead cold.

Thank you for your support,

cheers!


Coolant leak 1:
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Sorry to bring up an old thread, my MG ZR has what i assume is coolant in exactly the same position as Leak 1.

The headgasket was changed by a Rover main dealer about 4 years ago.

Is it possible my gasket is on the way out? There is a slight drop in coolant but nothing on dipstick, oil filler cap, in the expansion tank, car temp needle is just below half way and car seems to run perfectly.

Regards
Jon
Actually saying about the slight coolant drop, if I press the large hose near the rad at the front, the coolant returns to normal in the expansion tank and stays there while the engine is running.

Just had the engine running a while and there is nothing noticeable coming from that area while the car is running, temps all stay normal.

Just being paranoid???

Regards
Jon
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