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mg_tf
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
Does anyone out there know at what coolant temperature the Mems 3 ecu on an '02 TF160 VVC switches the fuelling to the closed loop condition?

Been having some thoughts about removing the standard thermostat and fitting a front mounted 82deg PRT unit instead.
I tried this once before and it certainly seemed to drop the high summer running temperature quite well (between 5 and 10 deg measured at ecu sensor) but I switched back to standard in the course of resolving emissions/ MOT issues, which actually turned out to be caused by valve timing errors and inlet manifold coolant leakage.

With the mot due again in a few months I am wondering if my plans to re-visit the front mounted PRT and resultant reduced running temp (5 to 10 deg) will give me new emissions issues?

Has anyone any thoughts or experience of this?
Thanks in advance
B.
 

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Ive never considered this mod but thats becuase Ive not had overheating issues or reason to question what the cars doing- mines oldeer than yours anyway-'02 TF160.Yes, the cars had HGF in my ownership but its been replaced before its been a major issue!
Whats made me reply is that Im sure my MOT tester is thorough but he doesnt warm my car up to do the test- OK, my MOT is usually July- but i drop it off and collect it later in the day- his rules. Hes not a back-street outfit and hes failed me once on a front wishbone ball-joint (which I didnt spot and couldnt see anything wrong with it- untill I removed/replaced it- he was right)
You are correct that the car must come off that fast idle before it runs normal or not over-rich.
 

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mg_tf
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Discussion Starter #3
Ive never considered this mod but thats becuase Ive not had overheating issues or reason to question what the cars doing- mines oldeer than yours anyway-'02 TF160.Yes, the cars had HGF in my ownership but its been replaced before its been a major issue!
Whats made me reply is that Im sure my MOT tester is thorough but he doesnt warm my car up to do the test- OK, my MOT is usually July- but i drop it off and collect it later in the day- his rules. Hes not a back-street outfit and hes failed me once on a front wishbone ball-joint (which I didnt spot and couldnt see anything wrong with it- untill I removed/replaced it- he was right)
You are correct that the car must come off that fast idle before it runs normal or not over-rich.
Thanks for that PatM, - your last sentence has just made me realise that my original question is probably not the right one to ask! - Of course, once the idle has stabilised down around the 800rpm mark the fuelling should be in the correct mode anyway, assuming no other faults are present and therefore the MOT should not present a problem.

I also realised that I probably gave the wrong impression when I talked about 'high summer running temperatures' - in fact what I should have said was that high temperatures are experienced when sitting in queues at traffic lights etc in high summer. Under normal driving temperatures are fine. This paranoia I have results from using a more accurate digital readout of temperature from the ecu and once experienced, is difficult to shake off! it's not noticeable on the standard gauge.

The reason for trying the front mounted PRT arrangement was to enable a greater volume of water to circulate before the 'stat opens and also the lower opening temperature of the 82deg PRT allowing for more volume to pass through the radiator sooner - if that makes sense!

Cheers - B.
 

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B- I know the theory of the PRT but I’ve never found the need. My car sits in traffic and maybe twice a year the engine compartment fan comes on. I check it’s working downtime’s as I can only hear it with the roof down. The needle wanders a needle-with over the halfway mark. When I first got it and I had early HGF symptoms, it ran 2 needle widths more when up to temp. As you say, paranoia sets in. Back in the early 2000’ s my wife and her mate went to a local shopping emporium which meant a 25mile blast down the M20 . On the return the ‘engine exploded with white smoke’ They and the car recovered, the engine had ‘blown its head-gasket’ This was alien to me as I’d never heard of the phenomena. Even though I’d had a k series engined Firms Rover 1.4 for a few years in the 90’s.
 

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mg_tf
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Thanks for that PatM, - your last sentence has just made me realise that my original question is probably not the right one to ask! - Of course, once the idle has stabilised down around the 800rpm mark the fuelling should be in the correct mode anyway, assuming no other faults are present and therefore the MOT should not present a problem.

I also realised that I probably gave the wrong impression when I talked about 'high summer running temperatures' - in fact what I should have said was that high temperatures are experienced when sitting in queues at traffic lights etc in high summer. Under normal driving temperatures are fine. This paranoia I have results from using a more accurate digital readout of temperature from the ecu and once experienced, is difficult to shake off! it's not noticeable on the standard gauge.

The reason for trying the front mounted PRT arrangement was to enable a greater volume of water to circulate before the 'stat opens and also the lower opening temperature of the 82deg PRT allowing for more volume to pass through the radiator sooner - if that makes sense!

Cheers - B.
Hi Bagley

Mine is a TF135 that i rebuilt a while back and i did relocated the thermostat to the front as you are considering for the exact same reasons. I stuck with the thermostat as opposed to thw PRT. I also fitted the 82C stat to address the larger volume of water and distance from the engine. My decision was primarily to eliminate the potential of a future HGF. I did a lot of reading on the subject beforehand and it seems the Lotus guys favour the remote stat approach. I also fitted the upgraded oil rail, MLS gasket, steel dowels and low coolant alarm. I also replaced the MGTF coolant tank with the VW polo tank that is far superior than the standard MG tank and cap at the same time. Three years on and so far no issues. Engine warms up is very quickly and the gauge sits just below the half way position and does not move.
Never thrown up any issues during MOT either.
 

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mg_tf
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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Bagley

Mine is a TF135 that i rebuilt a while back and i did relocated the thermostat to the front as you are considering for the exact same reasons. I stuck with the thermostat as opposed to thw PRT. I also fitted the 82C stat to address the larger volume of water and distance from the engine. My decision was primarily to eliminate the potential of a future HGF. I did a lot of reading on the subject beforehand and it seems the Lotus guys favour the remote stat approach. I also fitted the upgraded oil rail, MLS gasket, steel dowels and low coolant alarm. I also replaced the MGTF coolant tank with the VW polo tank that is far superior than the standard MG tank and cap at the same time. Three years on and so far no issues. Engine warms up is very quickly and the gauge sits just below the half way position and does not move.
Never thrown up any issues during MOT either.
Gentlemen, I am very grateful for thoughts and experiences - It has been a great help in settling my mind.
As soon as the weather stabilises I shall be outside to effect the mod.
I did consider the oil rail and MLS gasket option last year when I changed the head gasket as a precaution after a burst hose/ coolant loss drama, but decided against it and went for the conventional later type HG after I found that the cylinder liners were just below the minimum recommended upstand for MLS fitment. To date I have not had any issues and want to keep it that way!
I have fitted the low coolant alarm and am considering fitting a pressure gauge into the cooling sytem (as suggested by another member) to keep an eye on pressure cap performance.
Having said that, sometimes too much information can be a 'bad thing' :eek:!
I find owning a TF is great for keeping the brain cells ticking over !
Thanks again
B.
 
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