Get an uprated/different turbo, the OEM unit fails far too often, most the engines on ebay are turbo-less too, plus they sell for silly money.

 

No matter how you set the compressor housing it touches the block as well as the lower part of the exhaust manifold. The T28 is slightly better and almost aligns but still touches the block BUT clears the manifold.

This would suggest that the standard 1.8T turbo will not be suitable for such an easy conversion - physical size, capacity and possibly reliability issues, which are probably linked to the fact that the turbo has to work at near full capacity all the time to make some decent power. The ugly standard manifold is hanging by a thread unless someone produces a stubby...

 

Great, so what turbos are readily available in the UK?

If not Garrett T25 (I think it is a good turbo, but they seem to be scarce), what about the Audi / VW 1.8T 20V turbo - KKK K03 or even the TT's K04? Then there are also the Subaru turbo's (IHI?) which are sometimes available when guys upgrade?

The idea is not to make a recipe for monster power - say a reliable 200-220 bhp only. After that (or even before that), the K03 will start to choke already, which is why I like the T25.

 

I have the GT2854r its well suited to a 1.8 ,and quite cheap to buy brand new

 

I posted this last night on another thread - this starts to deal with space requirements.

These two pictures show clearly why the 1.8T standard manifold does not simply fit into a TF. The pictures have been taken from approximately the same angle, judged by the view if the front section of the subframe. It is not that clear on the second picture, but the exhaust outlet from the turbine is in line with the oil filter, whilst on the 1.8T the offset is probably at least 80mm.

The picture below shows how tight my manifold was, with the comressor housing approx 20 mm from the heat shield against the bulkhead. The position of the compressor outlet is also significantly more towards the fuel tank on the 1.8T manifold, in the area that turn inwards into the engine bay. This is critical, as you need some space for the air inlet and compressed air outled from the compressor housing to pass between the head and the bulkhead, whilst still leaving space for the water pipe connection.

Custom water outlet was required as there was simply no space for water connection.

This last picture gives a good indication of how "narrow" the manifold needs tpo be to fit - there is no space for the internal wastegate actuator, as the turbo leans inward towards the block to be able to fit.

 

Koos its a very compact bb turbo
works fantastic another k with this turbo is in the final build stage it is going to be nice to compare this build with mine ( mine being remote )

 

You wouldn't happen to have a work journal for your turbo conversion would you? Everyone likes a good project thread and on a more personal level, reading other peoples work is how I continue to learn.

 

yep its on the elise
sorry no build thread
I also have a tf and expect you could go remote if you are willing to loose the boot

 

How much extra space is needed, surely the short arses on here can loose a bit of cabin space

 

We haven't looked at it in terms of the F/TF, but we have built a manifold for the standard 1.8T turbo that sits much closer to the block, and is an improvement on the standard log of wood design, for the Metro GTi project we're doing. I imagine it would fit within the confines of the F engine bay - it's not like there is masses of room in a Metro either. In terms of a cost-effective solution it would be hard to beat. Not necessarily the best for lots of power, but a good way of getting 220 or so hp.

Personally, I would probably still go for a supercharger in an 'F, but haven't looked at the practicalities of it. It would also require more effort I suspect than a 1.8T would.

 

We haven't looked at it in terms of the F/TF, but we have built a manifold for the standard 1.8T turbo that sits much closer to the block, and is an improvement on the standard log of wood design, for the Metro GTi project we're doing. I imagine it would fit within the confines of the F engine bay - it's not like there is masses of room in a Metro either. In terms of a cost-effective solution it would be hard to beat. Not necessarily the best for lots of power, but a good way of getting 220 or so hp.

Personally, I would probably still go for a supercharger in an 'F, but haven't looked at the practicalities of it. It would also require more effort I suspect than a 1.8T would.

Dont suppose there are many of the supercharger kits left nowdays, maybe a mini cooper supercharger is useable, ive seen it done on an FTO.

 

No photos on me no, there are some but probably at home in NZ. . Not really ready to be produced, but it could be done. We made it ourselves. In terms of an easily reproducible one, a log of wood will always be easier and cheaper, just not quite as good.

I am using an Eaton M45 ex Mini Cooper on my K series Midget. It's a tight fit on the Midget, but I suspect you'd have a little more room to work with in an MGF/TF. BUT, it wouldn't be as cost effective as a turbo, unless you can do the fabrication yourself (as we have done).

 

In terms of an easily reproducible one, a log of wood will always be easier and cheaper, just not quite as good.

To make a log style manifold is very easy and it will surely fit easily inside a TF, but I just cannot get myself to manufacture something that bad in terms of efficiency and bolt it to my engine, hence the reason why my design is a bit more complex. Even the standard 1.8T cast manifold looks like something designed between breakfast and morning tea - just my opinion.

 

As a matter of interest, how many people would sacrafice having an aircon in their F/TF if they can have a turbocharger instead?

I cannot add a poll on to this thread, so will do a seperate thread just to ask the question?

 

I agree, hence why we did something a bit better, even though I doubt we've gained much.

I'd happily drop air con, it is a sports car which should be driven with the roof down anyway Plus, it saves ~70kg if you rip the whole system out.

 

Been thinking about a simple solution to the 1.8T interfacing with the Bulkhead it was a big reason why I went T16

If you put some angle spacers under the Engine/Gearbox mounts I suspect it might be enough to lean the engine more to the rear of the car and allow space for turbo to fit.

You would have to modify the torque arm that connects to engine sump and fabricate a couple of spacers but this would be much easier then attacking the bulkhead

Only thing that may be a problem is the diff position relative to the axles as the diff would move forward slightly but it would have to be a fair way to cause a problem

As I said Just a thought

 

Been thinking about a simple solution to the 1.8T interfacing with the Bulkhead it was a big reason why I went T16

If you put some angle spacers under the Engine/Gearbox mounts I suspect it might be enough to lean the engine more to the rear of the car and allow space for turbo to fit.

You would have to modify the torque arm that connects to engine sump and fabricate a couple of spacers but this would be much easier then attacking the bulkhead

Only thing that may be a problem is the diff position relative to the axles as the diff would move forward slightly but it would have to be a fair way to cause a problem

As I said Just a thought

Thats not a bad idea. I do see issues with oil and air intake delivery.

 

I have been thinking about the orientation of the turbo - both the configurations as shown in the pictures at the top have the compressor on the gearbox side with the turbine closer to the alternator.

Problem with this is that space for charge air pipes and water etc. is limited as result of the fuel tank protruding into the engine bay, whilst with the turbine near the alternator proper shielding is required to prevent the heat from frying the alternator. It also necessitated a shorter oil filter to have a "long as possible" radius on the down pipe as it exits the turbine. On top of this, the internal waste gate actuator does not fit as the turbo has to be too close to the engine block in order to fit.

If however, one turns the turbo horizontally through 180 degrees, most of these problems disappear. With the compressor facing the way of the alternator, the pipe for the air filter has ample space, the charge air pipe has a slightly longer route which is no problem either. The waste gate actuator now sits at the front, away from the engine block and will fit easily. The exhaust down pipe from the turbine still has to get the maximum radius which is only limited by distance between turbine and bell housing, but I am pretty sure the radius will still be larger than that on the standard 1.8T manifold. With most of the piping now sitting on the alternator side, the standard water outlet on the head could be used.

I have the picture of the manifold with this configuration in my mind - crystal clear....

 

I have been thinking about the orientation of the turbo - both the configurations as shown in the pictures at the top have the compressor on the gearbox side with the turbine closer to the alternator.

Problem with this is that space for charge air pipes and water etc. is limited as result of the fuel tank protruding into the engine bay, whilst with the turbine near the alternator proper shielding is required to prevent the heat from frying the alternator. It also necessitated a shorter oil filter to have a "long as possible" radius on the down pipe as it exits the turbine. On top of this, the internal waste gate actuator does not fit as the turbo has to be too close to the engine block in order to fit.

If however, one turns the turbo horizontally through 180 degrees, most of these problems disappear. With the compressor facing the way of the alternator, the pipe for the air filter has ample space, the charge air pipe has a slightly longer route which is no problem either. The waste gate actuator now sits at the front, away from the engine block and will fit easily. The exhaust down pipe from the turbine still has to get the maximum radius which is only limited by distance between turbine and bell housing, but I am pretty sure the radius will still be larger than that on the standard 1.8T manifold. With most of the piping now sitting on the alternator side, the standard water outlet on the head could be used.

A good Idea but to get right out there what about 90 degrees you could fabricate a straight pipe exhaust manifold and you wouldnt require the Turbo exhaust elbow it could run straight out under car less surface area for heat.

I dont know if the turbo bearings would like it much:bgrin:

 

Not sure if you guys have read this thread but .Orgs very own Ian Roberts is turbo'ing the VVC K and has shown how to modify the standard block to the same configuration as the Turbo block. Well worth a read if you have 20mins spare, lots of pictures too.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=451637

 

Great, add some more flavor to the recipe...

 

Easier solution than that could be the Eliseparts adjustable torque arm. I've unfortunatly sold my 1.8T manifold so can't see if it allows enough adjustment to fit but it may make that little bit of difference - http://www.eliseparts.com/products/s...-engine-mount/

Good idea only issue with that is just by adjusting the torque arm and not changeing the angle of engine mounts you would be putting a lot of extra angular stress the engine/gearbox mounts

may not be a problem if you dont have to jack engine over to far

 

Initially, the only reason why I wanted to have the aircon compressor removed was to have that space for the alternator, ie mount the alternator lower down. The reason for this is thet the exit out of port 1 on the head is extremely tight with the alternator in its normal location, which forces your manifold design to be more complex if you want to get to an equal runner length design. Looking at the pictures again, if the alternator could just swing on it's existing bracket away from the head, maybe using a longer belt, this same feat will be achieved and the aircon could remain.

After thinking of turning the turbo through 180 degrees horizontally, I am more convinced that aircon compressor should go, alternator remains at the top but swings downward to enable more simple design for manifold.

If one then "jack" the engine backwards a few degrees on top of this, life becomes a lot easier, no matter which way the turbo is facing. If you have almost no space, an additional 20mm is worth a lot!

 

I think you’re on to a winner at the same orientation the turbine & down pipe would clear the offset to the gas tank

Distance between the block to the compressor could be marginal but if you made an adaptor on exhaust flange to square up turbo relative to subframe then that’s not an issue

NOTE: from experiance if anything resides outside of front part of subframe it wont fit thats the cut off point)

Check out red line in pic (sorry its rough I only have paint on PC at home but it gets point across)

If its done like that and still dosent fit with a bit of "jacking" as xr3tf said I reckon it will fit nicely

Done like that A/C compressor might still fit with Turbo compressor further away from engine block and bit of fiddling. I cant comment on that because I cant take any measurments as 1.8k turbos a bit thin on ground in NZ

Its worth a some measurements in UK

 

Based on the picture below, it might actually be a lot easier than we all thought...

If someone has an 1.8T setup as per the picture handy outside the car, would you mind taking the turbo off and turning it through 180 degrees horizontally with the turbine facing the gearbox to see if the compressor etc will still fit near the block? Doing this would make the turbo sit a lot closer to the block, which is what we want to achieve. The issue of the turbine outlet might be a non event - I cannot find pictures of my empty enigine bay now, but I seem to recall that the fuel tank protrudes into the engine bay mainly towards the top of the engine bay, and at teh level where the downpipe must be, there might be enough space for it to pass through...

 

Based on the picture below, it might actually be a lot easier than we all thought...

If someone has an 1.8T setup as per the picture handy outside the car, would you mind taking the turbo off and turning it through 180 degrees horizontally with the turbine facing the gearbox to see if the compressor etc will still fit near the block? Doing this would make the turbo sit a lot closer to the block, which is what we want to achieve. The issue of the turbine outlet might be a non event - I cannot find pictures of my empty enigine bay now, but I seem to recall that the fuel tank protrudes into the engine bay mainly towards the top of the engine bay, and at teh level where the downpipe must be, there might be enough space for it to pass through...

And please while your measuring the distance from the line were the sump bolts to the engine to the bottom of the turbo compressor

 

My mate bought a 75 turbo.. with tax and mot for £350 a while bakc.. planned to fit one into an F.. cutting out the bulk head and re-locating the fuel tank to the front.. he's handy with a welder and has very good fabrication skills.. But doubt it will ever happen as he has other projects on the go at the moment

 

Can you measure it for us

 

Measure what?

Engine is still in the car.. In fact his wife was driving it up till recently

 

Measure what?

Engine is still in the car.. In fact his wife was driving it up till recently

Sorry
What you wrote Indicated the car wasn’t a runner my mistake

 

Did a post on the ZT section of .org, but no takers to see if turbo will fit the other way around...

If someone just has a manifold and turbo without the engine, the test will also help.

 

Did a post on the ZT section of .org, but no takers to see if turbo will fit the other way around...

If someone just has a manifold and turbo without the engine, the test will also help.

I have got K engine sitting on shed floor and T28 turbo handy
based on the photo I will get some approximate measurement were turbo will sit if T28 will fit in space then original 1.8k Turbo or T25 will defiantly fit

With no 1.8K turbo,s to measure its best guess

I still think turbo will interface with block but an exhaust flange adaptor angled away from block would sort that its a simple fix

 

Probably, 2 already have homes (Metro GTi and Midget) but the other is currently homeless.

 

I would be interested if you wanted to sell

 

I'm picking up a 1.8T sometime next week. What is it you want measurements of exactly?

 

We want to see if the Turbo will fit if it is turned 180 degrees on exhaust manifold so Turbine side is nearest the gearbox as this move will situate turbo housing closer to engine block

If it interfaces with engine block we need to know by how much as a simple spacer on Exhaust flange to move it away from block slightly and if necessary also square it up could be all the modifications required

(Photo I posted further up thread will give you the Idea)

The measurement from line were sump bolts to engine block and bottom of compressor housing would be good to thanks

This may allow 1.8t engine to be installed into F/TF a lot easier than first thought

 

I know what Xr3tf and Purple are getting at Dan just in case that wasn't clear. Let us know when you have the engine (on entire car) as in principle this is an easier conversion than initially thought.

 

If one goes the custom manifold route, it would be worth investing a longer ribbed belt to drive the alternator, to allow it to swing away further from the head. This will allow the exit from port one to be easier, which will allow a must simpler manifold design. A custom adaptor may also be required at the base of the alternator to move it completely out of the way.

Having looked at my pictures again, a more symetrical manifold design will move the outlet of the manifold / inlet to the turbine more towards the alternator, which will result in the compressor fitting in nicely in the cavity where the aircon compressor resides, above the oil filter and partially below the alternator. All of this will allow a reasonable radius for the downpipe exiting the turbine.

In terms of the standard 1.8T manifold, really looking forward to gotenks1321's test.

The more I am thinking about PurpleF's suggestion to "jack" the engine slightly backwards on it's axis by modifying the engine mountings slightly as well as the brace on the sump, the more I realize that the 20 or 30 mm gained by doing this is invaluable when you almost have no space, and I am talking from experience. With the gearbox mounting and engine mounting at cambelt side being at different levels, one might end up with the engine turning slightly "skew" along it's axis, but this should not cause hassles with a small amount of tilting. TaGc also mentioned that this might neccesitate a slight modification to the oil filler at the other side of the engine, as it might end up touching the rear wall of the engine bay.

Are we perhaps missing something in terms of reasons why tilting the engine a little bit backwards will be problematic?

 

Part of the recipe will have to deal with charge cooling.

This should do the trick...

http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=190 - rated at 260 bhp

or

http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=191 - rated at 280 bhp

 

Those would be a nice easy fit for T16

I have got a complete Subaru Leagcy system but the Charge cooler is an wide flat shape its looking like going to be a hard fit

I should have got a Toyota Celica GT4 charge cooler its better shape but harder to get hold of

I may have found a 12 Volt air conditioning unit that may be worth a look at Im waiting for some info. It is used for cooling Industrilal Electrical Cabinents its small and with a bit of re-engineering could make a good charge cooler.

As far as jacking engine back I cant see to many issues I would think the first thing to interfare if you went to far would be the Inlet manifold against boot wall

 

I'm picking the engine up tomorrow but I don't think the manifold is with it. I'll grab one sometime over the next week or so and give it a go if noone beats me to it :broon:

As for cooling, I've got a Nissan Pulsar GTiR intercooler coming so will see how that fits (or doesn't :lol

 

As for cooling, I've got a Nissan Pulsar GTiR intercooler coming so will see how that fits (or doesn't :lol

Where do you intend mounting the intercooler (air to air I presume)?

 

While at it, unless someone else can assist with measurements, please measure the distances between the holes of the 4-bolt turbine flange. Reason for this is that one often assumes that "T25" flange means that it fits all turbos that say "T25" bolt pattern, but when I tried to fit my GT25/40R with a T25 flange, the hole spacing was different to my original T25 turbo.

 

Don't waste time on the T25 just use the oil and water T28 off the Nissan 200sx you will find it bolts straight on as does the T25 to the standard manifold. The cast manifold is about as tight a fit as you are going to get with the turbo spun 180 degrees and but cutting and re welding the standard flange you can turn it slightly in towards the block without any issues and the standard cast manifold will get you the best part of the way to 300BHP. MAKE SURE YOU HEAT WRAP AND USE A TURBO COVER TO REDUCE HEAT IN THE ENGINE BAY. You will find the original Rover/MG downpipe is double skinned the outer pipe is 2.5 inch and the inner 2.25 inch with an air gap in between. Looking at this i think it was probably done to transfer turbo heat away from the engine to the cat pipe area on the ZT and 75 turbo's.