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Discussion Starter #1
Ok am 1/4 way through my rebuild, so far so good i have one concern though...

I reckon i'm over-reacting, but i have read horror stories about sunk liners and how it can occur during overheats etc etc

so basically so far...

I came to taking out the pistons and liners as part of the rebuild, basically there all foooked, left for too long after HGF, pistons and rings rusted and seized into liners on two cylinders, but i am replacing the pistons and liners on all four cylinders anyway.

ALL of the liners were perfectly flush with the block, ALL of the liners needed hammering bloody hard with a wood block to come out, so thats that

however...

whereas cylinders (and i mean machined into the block cylinders, not the liners) 1-3 are in perfect condition, cylinder 4 appears to be missing around 50% of the "circular ridges" that line the cylinders, theres one small polished area and one wierd stained area but the pattern is really erratic and not vertical in the cylinder as you would expect if it were moving up and down.

I tried putting cylinder fours matching liner in and with a bit of persuasion managed to get it all the way in and back out using only my hands which at the time worried me deeply, but i then tried again with one of the other liners which had come out of a good cylinder and it wouldnt go in hardly with my hands and when i did knock it in an inch or so i had to knock it back out with the wooden block!

So a worn liner maybe? and a cylinder that i will get away with?

Basically the plan i have once i get the new liners is to obviously apply the bead of sealant under the lip on the liner as normal, but also smear a light coating of semi permanant locking compound like a loctite bearing compound onto the rest of the liner, knock them in, check them meticulously for "flushness" (lol that even a word!?) let the compound set for 24 hours and then carry on...i.e install pistons etc.

So what you guys think, please only answer if you have a genuine clue as to what im on about, the last thing i want is people regurgitating bollox they read somewhere else that might not of even been correct etc, and by that i mean no offence to anyone, ive just had enough paranoia about this already!

Please guys, my rovers teetering on the edge i wanna save it!!

p.s 1.4 K series with damp liners

Thanks, CJ
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok, i'll reply to myself lol.

Took block to someone far more experienced than me, apparently it's fine, and the marks on the cylinder walls in the block are from heat, he suggests i use a flap mop to quickly get rid of any imperfections in the cylinder before installing the new liners.
 

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maybe you should have bought a working engine instead of wasting your time repairing yours.
when your pistons get to the point they rust, that's not very encouraging.
 

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Not sure, but the most important thing to check if it has overheated is that the liners, when inserted stand proud enough. As you may be aware, the liners rise up during an overheat and then, once they are pressing nicely into the head, they push down and eat into the bottom where they sit, which often means a new block.
 

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I'm know I'm not helping, but I need to give the fella a big slap on the back for fixing something rather than throwing it away and buying a new one (which for most of us means a second hand one that might not be any better than the one we've already got). We have an unhealthy obsession with treating all objects as disposable in this country, it's nice to see someone making an effort like this.

I've taken the lazy route with my ZS by buying second hand bits with the intention of holding on to the bits I take off to bring up to scratch at my leisure. I'm also hangning on to a 13 year old 414sli just in case my son's 214 bubble engine packs in ready for a transplant - it's worth bugger all to sell anyway and I know the engine and 'box are good even if they are 90k miles old.

For Carl to take his daily transport off the road to put it right is highly commendable and once done, it's another bit he's gonna know is not going to let him down in the near future.

Well done that man.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks garythesnail, nice to hear someone else support my initial frame of mind, yes i know i could get another engine for a couple 'hundred quid, but it might be minutes or years before it packs in...too much of a gamble, so i thought i'd rebuild.

I would like to add that 2 months ago i only knew the basics about cars like most people and the thought of opening her up and playing with "Big Ends" sounded terrifying lol, but it was make or break when it all went tits up so i have spent the last two months learning about engines, the K inparticular, through research in books and on here, talking to people in the know, my trusty haynes manual etc and now i consider myself a beginner-expert lol!

Yes, it still is a little daunting when something crops up now and then you dont fully understand but i figure the only thing that seperates us from mechanics is knowledge and experience - and a haynes manual puts that into one book, so follow the instructions exactly and seek out a little help now and then and you should be fine right!?

Well i have been so far and i gotta say im thoroughly enjoying it for what its worth, i dont mind cycling to work everyday, and putting my social life on hold for a while cos i know when shes done, that first time i get an open road in the sunset, sunroof down, life inspiring rock music blasting out and i open her up and floor it hearing the ever impressive sound of the "K" under the bonnet it'll feel so bloody good knowing that I made that happen, and i know its gonna last! Thats whats driving me on, anyone can do it! and fook me it'll be worth it just for that one moment!

Deep stuff over with lol ----------------------

anyway yeah, i reckon it'll work fine, like i said the liners were flush perfectly with the block and i've inspected for any signs of damage to the block and there does not appear to be any, we shall be fine (touch wood)
 

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anyway yeah, i reckon it'll work fine, like i said the liners were flush perfectly with the block and i've inspected for any signs of damage to the block and there does not appear to be any, we shall be fine (touch wood)
Good on you for having a go, but a Haynes manual, although it is a good start can be dangerous so be very careful and think through every action several times before doing it or it can end in tears.

The reason I posted is that you saying the liners are flush with the block suggests the block may be knackered.

The liners should be proud. Check the specs.
 

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I've had my own engine rebuilt twice and I resisted buying a fully working stanger engine for the same reasons as you, but when you said your pistons were rusting, that's a big uh oh moment.

I hope for you everything works out fine, but not every engine is reparable to an acceptable level.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
but when you said your pistons were rusting, that's a big uh oh moment.
It's because i got HGF and had loads of water in my cylinders but it sat for about about a month and a half before i even touched it, which is why i'm replacing the pistons and the liners.

Anyway, i've just had another look for about the tenth time at the block, no apparent damage to it, so i reinstalled the liners to check for sure, when a metal ruler was placed across the liner(s) and block i cannot get even the smallest feeler gauge to pass underneath the ruler at any point. However with a torch at the correct angle it is just possible to see light under the ruler at points which suggests the liner is higher than the block (standing proud) but with the ruler at other positions it isn't, so i would say they are flush if not ever so slightly proud, and besides, even if they were completely flush what would be the problem!? its not as if the bead on the gaskets flat so surely it would more than compensate?

What you reckon?
 

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It's because i got HGF and had loads of water in my cylinders but it sat for about about a month and a half before i even touched it, which is why i'm replacing the pistons and the liners.

Anyway, i've just had another look for about the tenth time at the block, no apparent damage to it, so i reinstalled the liners to check for sure, when a metal ruler was placed across the liner(s) and block i cannot get even the smallest feeler gauge to pass underneath the ruler at any point. However with a torch at the correct angle it is just possible to see light under the ruler at points which suggests the liner is higher than the block (standing proud) but with the ruler at other positions it isn't, so i would say they are flush if not ever so slightly proud, and besides, even if they were completely flush what would be the problem!? its not as if the bead on the gaskets flat so surely it would more than compensate?

What you reckon?
Suggest you measure it or this could all be a waste of your time and you need a new block.

The specs are in the K series head gasket thread. Need to height above deck AND the relation to each other. One liner must not be more than a certain amount above or below the one next to it, especially if fitting the LR MLS gasket.
 

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Suppose ...allthough its not been done before you could use shim stock under the liners, so they do stand proud...being as you've got this far ..just a sugestion.

also buy this book ...it's the bible of car overhaul books .

it's american written ,...but a lot more understandable than any british biook Ive read.



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auto-Servic...7683648?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176410557&sr=1-3


mines the hard back version ...
there are also more up to date versions ...

mines about 1978
All the best.mark
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks Ashy and Aboard_Epsilon, it's reassuring when the experts (which i do happen to see you two as) don't condemn my engine forever because of a 0.05mm difference!

As i said earlier, If it isn't flush then it's proud, i know its definitely not below i just can't be 100% which it is as i have no accurate enough way of measuring it perfectly!

Fingers crossed!
 

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Thanks Ashy and Aboard_Epsilon, it's reassuring when the experts (which i do happen to see you two as) don't condemn my engine forever because of a 0.05mm difference!


As i said earlier, If it isn't flush then it's proud, i know its definitely not below i just can't be 100% which it is as i have no accurate enough way of measuring it perfectly!

Fingers crossed!
Well I certainly wouldn't class myself as an expert, just knowledgeable.
I find a good indication is using the end of your finger and just the feel of it. You can feel the lip if you run your finger one way and then the other if it's proud. Wet the tip of your finger first to make it more sensitive. Not good for the difference, but some idea of whether they are proud though.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
well, even more reassuring still, as thats the way i did it at first, i can feel the lip of the liner as if it's proud, but couldnt seem to measure properley with a feeler gauge, it's such a fine measurement is 0.05mm that im not sure whether i cant get the blade in as im holding the ruler down too hard or if i can get it in because im forcing it under!? Will worry about getting the liners flush with each other when the new ones arrive in the post. Thanks Ashy
 

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well, even more reassuring still, as thats the way i did it at first, i can feel the lip of the liner as if it's proud, but couldnt seem to measure properley with a feeler gauge, it's such a fine measurement is 0.05mm that im not sure whether i cant get the blade in as im holding the ruler down too hard or if i can get it in because im forcing it under!?
Yep, same here. Often quite difficult to ascertain whether it's you or the block especially if it's still in situ.

I hope it all comes off for you. You'll get a great understanding of the engine and a heck of a lot of knowledge just by doing this.
 
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