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mgf
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I went to fill up with petrol this morning and noticed that E10 was available. I know there has been speculation in the past but is the any definitive information as to whether a 1998 Mk 1 MGF is OK with this stuff?
 

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MG TF
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It should be ok, Land Rover state that all petrol engines from 1996 are compatible with E10 and that will include the K-Series
 

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1995 MGF Mpi
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Here in South Western Ontario, Canada, E10 has been available for close to 20 years now. Both of our 1995 Fs have been sipping on E10 since they were imported in 2010. In the past 11 years and combine 40,000 miles, neither car has shown signs of any ill effects of E10, the main one that I was concerned about the plastic fuel lines and hoses, none have gone soft or cracked, nor dripping fuel and no rubber o-rings have gone to mush. I expect that the o-rings must be made of viton or some other E10 compatible elastomer and the plastic fuel lines and hoses are also made of an E10 compatible plastic.

Both cars give good fuel economy, 40+ mpg and the fuel we buy is 93 RON, which is a mid-grade fuel, only premium, the highest grade is 95 RON.
 

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rover_75
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Here in South Western Ontario, Canada, E10 has been available for close to 20 years now. Both of our 1995 Fs have been sipping on E10 since they were imported in 2010. In the past 11 years and combine 40,000 miles, neither car has shown signs of any ill effects of E10, the main one that I was concerned about the plastic fuel lines and hoses, none have gone soft or cracked, nor dripping fuel and no rubber o-rings have gone to mush. I expect that the o-rings must be made of viton or some other E10 compatible elastomer and the plastic fuel lines and hoses are also made of an E10 compatible plastic.

Both cars give good fuel economy, 40+ mpg and the fuel we buy is 93 RON, which is a mid-grade fuel, only premium, the highest grade is 95 RON.
Thanks for that. Good to know
 

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Starlight Silver MG TF 135
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Just a thought: If you own one of the very many K series engines which have:

A. Had the head gasket replaced
and
B. The head and/or block were skimmed
Then:
The compression ratio will be higher than "Standard"

Running on "Super" (higher octane) petrol will be a good idea if you want to avoid any detonation.

I was told (by the MGF Centre) to always use "proper" (non supermarket) Premium fuel. They did a replacement HG, head skim etc on my car in 2010, so they presumably know that it has increased CR. I resent paying such a price premium for petrol which probably costs hardly any more to refine than E10, but I will be fuelling my MGTF with premium.


Also, I read somewhere that "Premium" petrol contains no Alcohol, or at least way less than the 10% in E10.

Am I wrong??
 

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'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
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The maximum amount that can be safely skimmed from the head face of a Rover K series engine is very small (maximum 0.2mm), which will have no discernable effect on the compression ratio. Greater amounts can be removed, but require the depth of material removed to be replaced by the use of a suitable thickness head-saver shim.

The differing thicknesses of the various types of replacement head gasket available likewise make such a tiny difference to the compression ratio as to be insignificant. Indeed, the slight extra thickness of both first type two-layer MLS and shim, and the SAIC/N series six-layer MLS will cancel out some of the 0.2mm maximum skim anyway.

You would need to make a difference of several mm to have any measurable effect on compression ratio/engine performance (note that the Mexico version of the 1.8 VVC had con rods which were shorter by 3mm to marginally lower the CR to enable the engine to cope with the significantly poorer quality petrol in that part of the world; the same shorter con rods were also used in turbo versions of the 1.8 K).

The long and the short is that if the head gasket replacement/skim has been carried out correctly, there will be no measurable effect on compression ratio, and the use of premium petrol will achieve nothing other than empty your wallet faster. The K series engine doesn't have the means to 'sense' any change to higher octane fuel, so the ECU will continue to fuel the engine the same as it does for standard unleaded.

...... I read somewhere that "Premium" petrol contains no Alcohol, or at least way less than the 10% in E10.
Am I wrong??
Premium petrol is currently E5, and will remain as E5 after standard unleaded becomes E10. There are currently no official plans for premium petrol to beome E10.
 

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Starlight Silver MG TF 135
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Thank you "Man in the Car". You clearly have done your homework on the subject of K Series Head skimming and compression ratios.

I was surprised to be told that ONLY Premium fuel should be used in MGFs which had been through the MGF Centre "proper" Head Gasket+ Reinforced oil rail work. Are they just trying to minimise the chances of their head gasket needing replacement as a result of detonation?? They did give me a further 12 months warranty on the head gasket, even though they did the work for the previous owner in April 2010.

Also, I think they consider some supermarket fuel to be "dirty", contaminating/blocking fuel filters and/or injectors. Has anyone experienced these problems?

My final comment on E10 fuel is that I would not leave a fuel-tank half full of E10 fuel during a winter lay-up. I DEFINITELY would advise against opening the filler cap or otherwise allowing damp air into the fuel tank, because the alcohol is hygroscopic. I know (or at least believe!) that the fuel tank itself is blow-moulded plastic, so IT will not rust but we don't want water in the injectors etc. I guess we aim for a nearly empty tank, so there is very little alcohol, which presumably can only absorb a small amount of moisture, or fill to the brim with expensive Premium E5.
 

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Supermarket fuel is refined by and stored in exactly the same refineries as the ‘major’ brands, operated by those major brands...
If you don’t believe me, just go and stand by the gates for an hour.
I have worked on refineries for over 30 years and the number of UK producers is smaller than you would imagine.

There is no such thing as dirty fuel these days.

If water droplets were absorbed when you remove the filler cap, causing any kind of problem, the producers would be all over it.
 

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'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
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We have been using petrol with a 5% ethanol content for some years now without any issues developing resulting either from water absorbtion by the fuel, or corrosion/damage to metal or flexible/rubber fuel system components. I do not understand the reason why people should expect their car to fall apart just because we are changing from petrol with a 5% ethanol content to petrol with a 10% ethanol content?

Besides which, the UK is only playing catch-up; E10 has been the standard petrol elsewhere in Europe for several years, and those running MG and Rover cars on it have experienced no issues. At least one member of the forum has been running his Rover 25 on E85 for some time without problems.
 

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MG TF
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Once again it seems to be the media hyping this up, almost as if E10 is COVID for cars…

A lot has been said about the E10 giving worse performance and milage than other types of petrol, however from my albeit short experience with E10 this does not seem to be the case. Just over a week ago I drove down to Devon and our 10-year-old Skoda returned 49MPG, whilst down there I filled up with E10 and on your return yesterday it returned 50MPG. I know this is a very different engine but never-the-less if I had not filled the car up myself, I wouldn’t have known it was running E10.
 

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Man in the Car's experience is the same as mine: no issues.

In late fall, when I put the F away for the winter, I fill the tank with petrol and add fuel stabilser, which is formulated for ethanol containing fuels.
 

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rover_600
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I went to fill up with petrol this morning and noticed that E10 was available. I know there has been speculation in the past but is the any definitive information as to whether a 1998 Mk 1 MGF is OK with this stuff?
Have used this in France with no ill effect. As usual the UK is ten to fifteen years behind the times. Then perhaps that is unfair as there was a company making the same product in Scotland over a hundred years ago then came along petrol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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rover_600
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Just a thought: If you own one of the very many K series engines which have:

A. Had the head gasket replaced
and
B. The head and/or block were skimmed
Then:
The compression ratio will be higher than "Standard"

Running on "Super" (higher octane) petrol will be a good idea if you want to avoid any detonation.

I was told (by the MGF Centre) to always use "proper" (non supermarket) Premium fuel. They did a replacement HG, head skim etc on my car in 2010, so they presumably know that it has increased CR. I resent paying such a price premium for petrol which probably costs hardly any more to refine than E10, but I will be fuelling my MGTF with premium.


Also, I read somewhere that "Premium" petrol contains no Alcohol, or at least way less than the 10% in E10.

Am I wrong??
Perhaps it is because I come from an age where we think about what we are going to do before we start. Any time I have knowingly being going to skim the head and the block. Regardless of the power plant but especially on the K series I have ordered up the correct malabell copper gasket of the correct thickness for the skimming of the surfaces to be taken up by the gasket, I freely admit that it does add cost as high quality copper gaskets can be anything up to 6 times the cost of a normal quality gasket there are still a few companies out there who can make gaskets that will take up 80 thou + depending on the engine they are for. If you know what you are going to have to skim off the surfaces you can have your gasket made that will keep the overall compression remains the same. Every K series Lotus I have done has had the gasket made to compensate for the skim. It was also amazing how many K series engines after being laser checked required no work done to the head or the block. The problem in most cases was the head gasket failing due to poor construction.
We always put it down to Rover engineers being overruled by the bean counters and parts being supplied to cost and not specification.
Raising the compression is not always helpful if you are wanting more power and money is not an object. Then increasing the bore size and introducing power flow pistons. Can be the best way to go changing the angle of the valve seat, can improve gas flow by more than 10% assuming everything is polished and mated together on some engines we have even fitted shorter con rods to increase cubic capacity and decrease compression. Those jobs were always worked out in the drawing office before coming down to the engineering team to make their ideas a reality. Most of the time it could be achieved by off the shelf parts, though sometimes we had to machine custom parts.
A fantastic example of this being carried out by MG Rover, was when they produced the worldly land speed record tourer where the engine tuning company could get the mustang engine producing more than twice the power of the mustang shelf engine.


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MGtf wasn't on .gov last week when I needed fuel!! Got to pump & only E10 or E5. New system & not prepared.
Read loads that E10 safe for MGtf, if in doubt use E5. Another small sports car driver at pumps said " yeh E10 ok ". I filled up half tank with E10 in my loved ❤ but tatty MGtf. ( Nurse no ££s).
NOW .gov states E10 not compatible. Petrified to drive my car now, have I totally ruined engine now or potential shortly??. Head in turmoil & don't know what to do, OR what fuel to use if engine not **!
Thanks for any sensible opinions
 

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MG TF
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It will be fine
 

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Who believes anything the Government says anymore...?
Drive it and enjoy it.
 

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It shouldn't be a disaster for you. Top up with the correct fuel as soon as possible when around a third to half the tank is used.

The question is what is the correct fuel. Personally, I would use E10.

The government website does not say E10 is non-compatible for the MGTF. It says that it does not know so use E5.

On Landrover that used K series engines, it says 'E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from the model year 1996'.

As Landrover used many common parts with MG Rover (I am assuming that includes fuel line connectors as well but you can check yourself), I would suggest that E10 is ok for the MGTF and MGF.
 

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It shouldn't be a disaster for you. Top up with the correct fuel as soon as possible when around a third to half the tank is used.

The question is what is the correct fuel. Personally, I would use E10.

The government website does not say E10 is non-compatible for the MGTF. It says that it does not know so use E5.

On Landrover that used K series engines, it says 'E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from the model year 1996'.

As Landrover used many common parts with MG Rover (I am assuming that includes fuel line connectors as well but you can check yourself), I would suggest that E10 is ok for the MGTF and MGF.
Thank you for your reply
It shouldn't be a disaster for you. Top up with the correct fuel as soon as possible when around a third to half the tank is used.

The question is what is the correct fuel. Personally, I would use E10.

The government website does not say E10 is non-compatible for the MGTF. It says that it does not know so use E5.

On Landrover that used K series engines, it says 'E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from the model year 1996'.

As Landrover used many common parts with MG Rover (I am assuming that includes fuel line connectors as well but you can check yourself), I would suggest that E10 is ok for the MGTF and MGF.
Thank you for your reply
 
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