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r0ver said:
is that possible and how hard is it?
what parts would I need?
Not difficult, find a Rover 420 and swap the engines. You'll be wanting to stick in a MG Maestro/Montego gearbox at the same time to cope with the torque as the units fitted to the 220/420/620 Turbos aren't quite as good.

There should be enough space in front of the engine for the turbo without any major headaches with the radiator, but I'm not 100%.

It has been done in the past, there was a nice MG ZS lookalike with 220hp, sadly written off as I recall.

It's a major job if you don't swap the engines, needs, IIRC, uprated pistons to cope with the turbo, and by the time you worry about that, an engine swap is probably easier, buy a turbo engine from a 220 Coupe or 620ti and sell your old engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
oh sorry, I was talking about engine swap.
been looking at engines at the scrappies today, found a few DOHC Turbo engines laying around.

I was wondering how to do with the ECU and the wiring, and would the 416 gearbox work?
 

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r0ver said:
oh sorry, I was talking about engine swap.
been looking at engines at the scrappies today, found a few DOHC Turbo engines laying around.

I was wondering how to do with the ECU and the wiring, and would the 416 gearbox work?
The wiring will be a bit trickier with the 1.6 being the K-Series whereas the 2.0 being the non turbo version of the T-Series will be a lot easier. It can be done, it's been done with a few 200 bubbles.

Forget about using the 416 gearbox, no use at all, you need the uprated box for the T-Series, and you really need to MG Maestro/Montego gearbox which is the strongest of the lot (uses much better bearings). You also need the Torsen diff to keep all that power under control.

Good project though. It was the one thing the 200/400 range was missing, a stupidly fast Q car.
 

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Nick Birse said:
The wiring will be a bit trickier with the 1.6 being the K-Series whereas the 2.0 being the non turbo version of the T-Series will be a lot easier. It can be done, it's been done with a few 200 bubbles.

Forget about using the 416 gearbox, no use at all, you need the uprated box for the T-Series, and you really need to MG Maestro/Montego gearbox which is the strongest of the lot (uses much better bearings). You also need the Torsen diff to keep all that power under control.

Good project though. It was the one thing the 200/400 range was missing, a stupidly fast Q car.
Make that the MG Montego and Maestro TURBO gearboxes Nick. The gold label* K7AR series. I've coverted one to Torsen differential and fitted it to a Tomcat Turbo. Very successful. Next one I do - ongoing project - I'll also replace the good but obviously worn steel caged Montego Steel Caged differential bearings with brand new premium brand steel caged ones. The torsen is from a 620ti box. The gear ratios and final drive ratios of the Maestro?Montego Turbos are identical to the Tomcat Turbo.

* Gold Label ones to look for like this:



Here's the different differentials... Tomcat's Torsen on left, conventional Montego Turbo diff on right:



I have driven an MG Montego Turbo converted to Rover T16 Turbo power but, fitted with an EFi MG Montego Gearbox. It is quite manic and the need to change up far too quickly and frequently for me negates the fine torque and power spread properties of the T16 Turbo engine.

r0ver said:
is that possible and how hard is it?
what parts would I need?
Yes, of course it is. To do it right, time consuming rather than difficult. Research here and over on Rovertech.net - several folks have done this worthwhile conversion and if you do and get it right, you'll have a very pleasing car which will not cost a lot to put together>

Good luck if you do go ahead.
 

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Hi John
being as my gearbox is coming out ..in a weeks time for the coreplug job .

How do I tell if anythings about to fail in the box.
What do I look for

And how easy is it to work on .
Do I need specialist tools .
Do i need new gaskets seals etc
Does it have preloads etc .

Is it a ten min job to swap these diff bearings ..for better ones .
The modified ones ...where do I get them from ...how much .......

My box has 69,000 on it ..by an old bloke .

all the best...mark
 

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Hi John

being as my gearbox is coming out ..in a weeks time for the coreplug job .

How do I tell if anythings about to fail in the box.

The first one I did took a day ... A steep learning curve but I did learn a lot...I could write a small book on the subject - pm me if you like and a phone call follow up will save a lot of time. I did do lengthy illustrated posts over on Rovertech.net so a search there may be productive for you.

What do I look for

And how easy is it to work on .Do I need specialist tools .

Not difficult if you work carefully and have no time constraints. No special tools needed but a good set of hex-sockets (six sided) will help with some of those bolts which are very tight.

Do i need new gaskets seals etc

No - I used a tube of Power Bond when I assembled it - not expensive and box oil tight.

Does it have preloads etc .

If you replace the bearings with those of identical dimensions preloads should not be an issue.

Is it a ten min job to swap these diff bearings ..for better ones .

Can be with the correct drifts and pullers...allow a lot more time is best.

The modified ones ...where do I get them from ...how much .......

They are not modified, just top quality premium brands - I got mine from a local trade bearing supplier a couple of years back...can be up to 35 quid each .. but, I paid much less than that..... SKF 6208 2Z EXPLORER for the differential but higher spec roller (not ball) bearings can be used - thats were pre-load issues can play a part. Not really necessary unless Andy Nicholls has breathed on your T16 DOHC turbo ...:) . Whichever ones you go for, carefully measure the new bearings diminsions as there are minor variations in races which can mean they need to be ground down thinner by a few thou. However, any good quality 6208 bearings with STEEL BALL CAGES will suffice and will almost certainly have identical dimensions to the old ones you remove.

My box has 69,000 on it ..by an old bloke .

Just run in then but, be warned, not all old blokes creep about ... my evidence? ... the finest available ..:)

all the best...mark

Here's a couple of stripped PG1 gearbox pictures which will give you some idea of what's involved. The most difficult part is releasing the circlip which locks the shaft in the casing.... there's a knack and I used some long nosed pliers to open that powerful circlip.

PG1 with casing removed:



Using a puller to remove TomCat's diff bearings - note plastic ball race cages:



Oh yes, that bluddy circlip... yer tis with the little cover removed:



What it looked like all back together:



If you can obtain a scrap PG1 to work on first - get one. Working on scrap parts is a very effective and inexpensive way of learning: Good luck... very satisfying when you drive the car after all your own work and ... not only does it work, but is much, much better!
 

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MGJohn said:
Make that the MG Montego and Maestro TURBO gearboxes Nick.
Did I forget to say TURBO ?

Oops. Different ratios to the EFi box which pops up in the MG and also the Montego VP model IIRC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I wish it was easier, I wouldn't mind having 220 bhp in my car and the engine's not that exepensive (no one wants it) but it's just too much trouble and I want my car running again this week.

too bad! guess I'm gonna stay with the Krap series 1.6 :)
 

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aboard_epsilon said:
Can the gearcluster and the selector forks etc ...be left in place .........and just the crown wheel lifted out .

all the best..mark
No ... undo a few bolts which secure the selector mechanism and the whole cluster can be lifted out (and replaced later ) as one unit.... carefully mind.... it's heavy .... drop that lot and ... :(

Only then can the crownwheel/differential assembly lift out.
 

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r0ver said:
I wish it was easier, I wouldn't mind having 220 bhp in my car and the engine's not that exepensive (no one wants it) but it's just too much trouble and I want my car running again this week.

too bad! guess I'm gonna stay with the Krap series 1.6 :)
That's understandable. You need transport but they're not krap anyway.. However, these cars are so cheap to purchase now that you could by another one and have that as a side project you work on when time and funds allow ..... then one day ... if you'd like one that badly ...
 

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BTW JOHN
Thanks for going to the trouble of the long reply.

Will be in touch
To ask questions like :-
what are the other bearings like in the box...do these fail early.

why should rover ....do this to a box ........for the sake of a couple of quid.

Is it worth replacing the drive shaft seals .....or will these go on a lot further..

all the best..mark..

I'm just going to the other rover forum to squint at that small type now ..
I would be posting in there ...but for the small type ..........my monitors not so hot .....and i just cant read it...looks a good forum as well ...spoils it in my honest opinion
And yes I do have my explorer set to largest type available .

all the best,,,,,,,,,,mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
MGJohn said:
That's understandable. You need transport but they're not krap anyway.. However, these cars are so cheap to purchase now that you could by another one and have that as a side project you work on when time and funds allow ..... then one day ... if you'd like one that badly ...
rovers are that ridiculously cheap only in the UK. I'm not in the UK.
 

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aboard_epsilon said:
BTW JOHN
Thanks for going to the trouble of the long reply.

Will be in touch
To ask questions like :-
what are the other bearings like in the box...do these fail early.

why should rover ....do this to a box ........for the sake of a couple of quid.

Is it worth replacing the drive shaft seals .....or will these go on a lot further..

all the best..mark..

I'm just going to the other rover forum to squint at that small type now ..
I would be posting in there ...but for the small type ..........my monitors not so hot .....and i just cant read it...looks a good forum as well ...spoils it in my honest opinion
And yes I do have my explorer set to largest type available .

all the best,,,,,,,,,,mark
Check any bearings for waer by 'feel' once you've go the box apart.

Replace the Driveshaft seals anyway and any others you spot that are showing signs of leaking.

In my opinion from observations of about a dozen PG1 boxes, the differential bearings usually only give trouble due to some agency affecting their lubrication. They sit up at the top of the gearbox's lubricant level. Seal wear - not only differential seals - allows progressive loss of lubricant past worn seals over time and many miles and when the level has dropped too far, those bearings no longer run in lubricant ... guess what happens?

Moral... check those gearbox levels and top up if as is usually the case it's necessary...

Here's pictures of a friend's PG1 Box showing bearing damage following lack of proper lubrication:





Where's me balls cage gorn then ..:(
 
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