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Do we even deserve this Car Industry?

  • No. We are arrogant Snobs...

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  • Yes. I am proud of my Car Industry. (What is left of it anyway...)

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do we, the over zealous British public actually deserve a Car Industry.

There are some Countries in the World absolutely begging to have one, yet here is us more than willing to chuck it away without a seconds thought.

The question has to be asked. Do we even deserve a Car Industry?
 

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Probably not. Throughout history of British car firms we have had managers who cannot manage them, designers who cannot design decent products for them, workers who won't build the products properly, workers who won't build them at all, politicians who won't back them, politicians who harmfully interfere with them and customers who won't buy them.

Not sure what the result of the following excercise will be, but if someone cares to investigate, take all british car companies (not imported companies like honda and nissan). Now make a list of all the cars they have ever made. Now split the cars that were really good into one column and the ones that were mediocre or crap into another. I'd bet the column for good cars is much shorter than the other. Especially if you relegate a car that was once good to the crap column because it lived for far too long without a replacement (most of BL and Rootes stuff then!)
 

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Do we deserve one? Probably not.
Saying that every other major industrial nation has pride in their motor industry and make alot of effort to support it. China and India are desperately trying to develop their own motor industries so it must have a fair amount of importance or status. It would therefore be a very sad day if ours disappeared leaving us merely producing cars for the Germans, French, Americans and Japanese, unable to develop and build our own. Then we would never be likely to see our home based mass production car industry again because getting together skilled workers, factory, designing and tooling a range of cars and setting up a dealer and service network would just be a dream.
 

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With apologies to Londonbabe... today, we have managers who can manage, designers who can design decent products for them, workers who build the products superbly, workers who are amongst the most flexible and spirited in the busines yet we still have politicians who won't back them, politicians who harmfully interfere with them and customers who won't buy them.

Regards

John
 

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JohnSwitzer said:
With apologies to Londonbabe... today, we have managers who can manage, designers who can design decent products for them, workers who build the products superbly, workers who are amongst the most flexible and spirited in the busines yet we still have politicians who won't back them, politicians who harmfully interfere with them and customers who won't buy them.

Regards

John[/QUOTE

You are right of course but you forgot to mention the journos who gleefully tear strips off them.

IVAN
 

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JohnSwitzer said:
With apologies to Londonbabe... today, we have managers who can manage, designers who can design decent products for them, workers who build the products superbly, workers who are amongst the most flexible and spirited in the busines yet we still have politicians who won't back them, politicians who harmfully interfere with them and customers who won't buy them.

Regards

John

Sorry John but no company can be propped indefinately by the taxpayer. Rover in previous incarnations was propped to the tune of billions and still withered on the vine.

The company is simply to small to compete and there are questions, even if the $100 million is forthcoming whether it can survive.

As much as we want a British company to succeed the car market is a brutal business and people's want don't make a business. There is massive overcapacity and players with real money - it is sad, but not surprising the position they are in.
 

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Rover by itself was never propped up by the government. BL was. But that was owned by the Government. Oh, and BMW took a rather tastym government money pie. Well over £100m of tasty government pie, just before it dropped Rover.
 

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byecklad said:
Sorry John but no company can be propped indefinately by the taxpayer. Rover in previous incarnations was propped to the tune of billions and still withered on the vine.
MG Rover is not the same company as BL, AR or any of its previous incarnations. It also hasn't had any 'handouts' from the Government for probably well over a decade. Hardly one that's being 'propped up by the taxpayer'.
 

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I beg to differ with the above members who state that Britons do not know how to make a quality car, I would suggest that some members are well and truly stuck in the 1970s.

The entire MGR range (75/ZT in particular), Jaguar range, Land Rover range, Swindon Hondas, Derby Toyotas are of the very highest quality to be found anywhere.

The Peugeot 206 and BMW MINI are a bit ropey but there is always an exception to the rule.
 

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I am not saying that we don't know how to make decent cars now. But I am saying that throughout the history of the industry we have not known. And that knowledge has come too late for the home grown industry. I suppose that Honda are here because BL could not cope without them, and Peugeot are here because Rootes went to the wall.

But let's not be too disheartened. We do have an exceptional motor industry. As a nation of car builders we excel, producing and exporting more British built cars than at any time in our history. It's just that the owners are no longer British.
 

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Yes because Britain has and still does make some of the best cars in the world. The new Discovery and DB9 prove the UK has still got what it takes to design and build the best in the world when funded properly.

The UK has made cars which the japanese would die to get even close to
 

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Londonbabe said:
Probably not. Throughout history of British car firms we have had managers who cannot manage them, designers who cannot design decent products for them, workers who won't build the products properly, workers who won't build them at all, politicians who won't back them, politicians who harmfully interfere with them and customers who won't buy them.
The UK has many of THE BEST designers and engineers on the planet, thats why F1, Indycars, etc are full of them, and we hope the world land speed record thanks to a bunch of blokes with a bit of spare time.

Unfortunatly, much of the British public (who chose the government!) insist on buying French and other cr4p. Why do other countrys have high import tax on new cars, but we don't?

Pete
 

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pistol pete said:
Unfortunatly, much of the British public (who chose the government!) insist on buying French and other cr4p.
And therein lies the problem. Those people that go around saying "there's no British car industry left anymore, it's a disgrace, etc.) and they drive BMWs.
 

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Do we deserve any industry???

Ship yards, cole mines, steel works, car industry, cement, paper, electronics, even call centres (not really an industry, but its a current point).

All go down the pan here from lack of support, and funding from the relevant authorities.
 

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No we don't support the UK and we don't support MGR. We don't deserve any industry since we're self serving, take the money and run types alien to Germany and France where they are patriotic.
 

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MGR deserve a chance to show what the new 45/ZS is made of. One last. I think it will be a world beater. If they go belly up the Government , China and the Brit people are to blame. They're not a lame duck. The market is difficult at present.
 

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Mike200SEi said:
Do we deserve any industry???

Ship yards, cole mines, steel works, car industry, cement, paper, electronics, even call centres (not really an industry, but its a current point).

All go down the pan here from lack of support, and funding from the relevant authorities.
I can't remember which public figure it was that said there is almost a culture that wills the successful to fail. But they were spot on. Why work hard for things when you can hope to get on big brother and become a celebrity for just generally being a prick??

If you try to succeed, all you come up against is doubters, and when you do succeed they don't go away and if anything become more so if they can't get a piece of the pie.

The UK has become very mercenary over the years.
 

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pistol pete said:
The UK has many of THE BEST designers and engineers on the planet, thats why F1, Indycars, etc are full of them, and we hope the world land speed record thanks to a bunch of blokes with a bit of spare time.

Unfortunatly, much of the British public (who chose the government!) insist on buying French and other cr4p. Why do other countrys have high import tax on new cars, but we don't?

Pete
Yes we have all those people *now* but did we always have? And even if we had, the actions of the government, management, unions and workers may still have undone their good work.

The reason the people of britain buy foreign cars is, let us not forget or ignore, because by and large they are very good cars. They are designed competetently, built well, specified well, made of good quality reliable components and most are fairly good looking. Why should they not buy them? British cars have, by and large, failed to compete with the majority of the foreign competition for the entire history of the British Motor industry (car, bike, military and truck), mainly due to a combination of Governmental idiocy and management incompetence. And by the continuing use of Lucas components.

When Alfa was producing jewel-like all alloy twin cam engines BL was still producing the A an B series. When Toyota was importing cars that simply never ever ever went wrong in the 70s BL was producing the Allegro and Princess and Rootes the Avenger. When in the 30s the Americans were producing large oversquare V8 engines in large cars loaded with toys - as base models - Austin were forced by this country's ridiculous taxation rules to waste all their development money on tiny uncompetetive parsimoniously equipped cars with gutless small long-stroke engines and no appeal, that had no possibility of export success at all.

And it ain't other country's supposedly high import taxes - quite the opposite. Britain's own high import taxes were the bloody reason why BMC thought that it was ok to palm off British buyers with heaps like the Landcrab and Oxford - because we could not afford the cost of vastly better imported models due to high taxation, mediocre crap was competetive at home. So competetive that BMC and co thought they would never have to compete with foreign models at home or abroad. Import taxes made a 2 litre Alfa Spider more expensive than an E-Type here. But it also made 1300 Juniors more expensive than Rover P6s when in reality they were Austin 1100 competitors (and cheaper and better). Those countries with high import taxes even to this day are those countries who's cars are too crap to compete on their own merits. They are nothing to worry about.
 

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Well said Vincero.

And its the same all the way through the British culture, even down to sport. Tim Henman is a case in point.

He does resonably well at Wimbledon on most occasions and the inevitable 'He'll be knocked out next round' is bound to spring up.

I dont understand, most countries back their own. We dont, we back others.

The Olympics is another example, so is the Beagal space project
 

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I think the reason we back other country's sporting players in the Tennis is because anyone who has followed Henman for years knows that he is simply outclassed and will never win.

But look at the Olympics, then, since you brought them up. In the sports we know we are good at do you see a single person supporting the foreigners? Did you see anyone rooting for the Italians or Canadians in the Rowing? And was anyone not cheering for Denise Lewis?

We are patriotic - even when the middle classes try and make us ashamed of it, but we british have also always been realists who recognise when we cannot compete and then sportingly cheer the other fellow (instead of bitching and whining about it.)
 
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