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Just a thought but why doesn't David James attempt to buy or do a licensing deal for the Triumph brand? If BMW won't sell the brand then fine, but I get the impression from the ARG website that they may license the brand.

David James has tried and failed with MG but if he could get the Triumph car brand then he could even look at forming a partnership with the Motorbike company. Then his revitalised Smart car would have an excellend brand name.

Come on David James, what are you waiting for?
 

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...oooh and he's possibly planning on building cars in Coventry, so there is even a link with the heritage of the brand....
 

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MGROVERnut said:
...oooh and he's possibly planning on building cars in Coventry, so there is even a link with the heritage of the brand....
If their built in Coventry and re-engineered in this country I'm happy.

And yes smarts are German cars but then again most Rovers made in the tie-up with Honda were Japanese designs, simpy "Roverfied" but they used K-series instead of Honda engines.

Seat, Skoda, MINI, Rolls Royce, most Vauxhalls, Saabs, Fords are German.

GM and Ford use German underpinnings on most of their European cars.

As long as its a British company with some UK manufacturing i'm happy.
________
MAZDA RX-8 PICTURE
 

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Why doesn't David James build a moon-base and run trips there for £9.99 to compete with Ryanair? He's about as likely to get investment to back it.

Finding anyone to put serious money into such a project is a very, very long shot because the industry experts appear to take the view (correctly in my opinion) that the days of small independents in the motor industry are probably over.

If MGR couldn't get anyone to invest in them - a proper company with a factory, design and development team, sales and distribution network then, if we're honest, what hope some bloke whose ideas seem to change as often as the weather?

Sorry to sound so negative - it's a nice idea - but I just don't see how the figures could possibly add up for such a venture.
 

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I agree with sadtosee - it is a great idea, but let's face it, David James, after so many 'cry wolf' style press releases associating the Smart roadster with first AC, then MG and more recently Healey, frankly he's lost a lot of credibility.

But yes, I would be delighted to see the Smart Roadster rebranded as a Triumph Spitfire. Might be tempted to buy one too.
 

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MGROVERNut, you're a great guy. Always looking at the positive end of things. But, BMW own the rights. They kept them because they know how good Triumph sounds, how good Triumph actually was in the mid 60's -> late 70's.

But why should BMW respawn the company? There's no advantage from their point of view. There is only risk. Risk that people would not accept a new Triumph, that people would not accept a BMW Triumph. MINI was a colossal RISK in terms of the capital and time spent in development. That it happened, that it did finally pay off was due to the faith of one Bernd Piechstrider. And we all know BMW got rid of him for that very reason.

Remaking MINI was a big risk. It involved taking the best ideas from the Rover group and reworking them; some would say screwing Rover in the process. (Really though, Rover could not have survived even past 2000 if BMW had not been footing the bill... so who was screwed?) Regardless the new MINI was a (Triumph?!) of advertising, and design for modern requirements whilst drawing on the fondness many have for 1960's era British automobiles. The number on the road are truly staggering, considering how niche/non mainstream the car itself is.

Then again I can imagine how successful a new Triumph Spitfire in the MINI mould might be. I can imagine how successful a new Triumph 2000/2500 in the MINI mould might be. I salivate at the possibilities.

But, just because I (we) can see, that we know that a new Triumph brand would be really really successful, it doesn't mean that everyone else knows it. Anoraks like us know Triumph is the greatest thing God ever concieved. To make a success of it would be another matter. It would require advertising, it would require belief, it would require devotion. It would require money. Would BMW really put money up again without Bernd Peichstrider at the helm? I really doubt it.
 

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Rob Bell said:
I agree with sadtosee - it is a great idea, but let's face it, David James, after so many 'cry wolf' style press releases associating the Smart roadster with first AC, then MG and more recently Healey, frankly he's lost a lot of credibility.

But yes, I would be delighted to see the Smart Roadster rebranded as a Triumph Spitfire. Might be tempted to buy one too.
I'm pretty sure the deal with Healey has been done.

John
 

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smosquito said:
MGROVERNut, you're a great guy. Always looking at the positive end of things. But, BMW own the rights. They kept them because they know how good Triumph sounds, how good Triumph actually was in the mid 60's -> late 70's.

But why should BMW respawn the company? There's no advantage from their point of view. There is only risk. Risk that people would not accept a new Triumph, that people would not accept a BMW Triumph. MINI was a colossal RISK in terms of the capital and time spent in development. That it happened, that it did finally pay off was due to the faith of one Bernd Piechstrider. And we all know BMW got rid of him for that very reason.

Remaking MINI was a big risk. It involved taking the best ideas from the Rover group and reworking them; some would say screwing Rover in the process. (Really though, Rover could not have survived even past 2000 if BMW had not been footing the bill... so who was screwed?) Regardless the new MINI was a (Triumph?!) of advertising, and design for modern requirements whilst drawing on the fondness many have for 1960's era British automobiles. The number on the road are truly staggering, considering how niche/non mainstream the car itself is.

Then again I can imagine how successful a new Triumph Spitfire in the MINI mould might be. I can imagine how successful a new Triumph 2000/2500 in the MINI mould might be. I salivate at the possibilities.

But, just because I (we) can see, that we know that a new Triumph brand would be really really successful, it doesn't mean that everyone else knows it. Anoraks like us know Triumph is the greatest thing God ever concieved. To make a success of it would be another matter. It would require advertising, it would require belief, it would require devotion. It would require money. Would BMW really put money up again without Bernd Peichstrider at the helm? I really doubt it.
Yes, I saw a Triumph Dolomite this morning at the petrol station and regularly park beside a Stag. It has always struck me that if the DNA of these cars could be fast tracked into the 21st Century, what a stunning range of cars they would make.

But sadly, I don't just see it happening :(

John
 

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The issue is one of money and return on investment. Re-launching Triumph would cost well into the £billion's and would need to get similar returns in the long run. Whatsmore it would need to get returns above what simply launching similar cars under the existing Mini or BMW badges would gain.

If it didn't achieve this then there is no point. Is it possible? Maybe with enough money and commitment as Mini has proved but nobody but an existing car manufacturer would have the money, resources and distribution to do it.
 

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sadtosee said:
If MGR couldn't get anyone to invest in them - a proper company with a factory, design and development team, sales and distribution network then, if we're honest, what hope some bloke whose ideas seem to change as often as the weather?
There's a chance that MGR might have secured investment in 2000 - they had the seed capital to put down, were riding high, etc. However they went looking for an industry partner, not an investor. They then proceeded to squander the dowry, chase blind alleys, maintain a massively overstaffed factory with outdated working practices, and so on.

Investors like management track record. The P4 had some from the past, but proceeded to pollute their reputation by their actions. Investors would have stayed away in droves.

Compare this with, say, BMW. Solid track-record, not a huge player in the 80s, but with clever managemet (and the Rover deal was clever for BMW, even if we don't like it - they made money), top-quality product, and solid investors, they are now where they are.

None of this is to say that David James has what it takes to appeal to investors, but I'm afraid just saying that because MGR had a factory and some staff but failed to secure investment means that nobody in that situation could secure investment is a little, err, naive.
 

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JohnSwitzer said:
I'm pretty sure the deal with Healey has been done.

John
it would be a good fit John - the Smart roadster has more than a passing resemblance to the Frog-eye sprite, and has the same low-weight, small engined ethos.

I've not heard anything recently - although read the reposte from the new owners of the Healey brand soon after the David James media mill had announced the alledged tie-up.

Have you heard more recently?
 

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clavileno said:
None of this is to say that David James has what it takes to appeal to investors, but I'm afraid just saying that because MGR had a factory and some staff but failed to secure investment means that nobody in that situation could secure investment is a little, err, naive.
Of course not, but when was the last privately financed complete start-up mid to high volume car manufcaturer started in Western Europe or the USA?
 

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Rob Bell said:
it would be a good fit John - the Smart roadster has more than a passing resemblance to the Frog-eye sprite, and has the same low-weight, small engined ethos.
If it was a flop and made a loss with all the back-up of DaimlerChysler why is sticking another badge on it from a start-up company with no distribution suddenly going to make it a profitable success?
 

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sadtosee said:
If it was a flop and made a loss with all the back-up of DaimlerChysler why is sticking another badge on it from a start-up company with no distribution suddenly going to make it a profitable success?
I haven't seen the books - but James is buying the rights and production equipment with the development costs written off.

Much much easier to make a profit on a car that has cost so little to buy - and they can build a business case accordingly.

Mind you, I wouldn't like to speculate upon the likely success of such a venture - far too many sports car companies have fallen by the way side over the years - Healey, Jensen, MG, Singer, Sunbeam and Triumph to mention but a few of the better known names that have been on or are currently in the great scrap heap in the sky...
 

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Rob Bell said:
I haven't seen the books - but James is buying the rights and production equipment with the development costs written off.

Much much easier to make a profit on a car that has cost so little to buy - and they can build a business case accordingly.

...
Isnt that exactly the situation Phoenix were in in 2000. That didnt work so I can't imagien this will with a very very niche vehicle (ie, extremely small and crap) and only 1 model.
 

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Arguably, they are in a worse situation than MG Rover - although they can at least start from a clean sheet when it comes to setting up their factory and writing employment contracts. And super-niche vehicles cost less to develop than mainstream vehicles like the R75/ MG ZT - NVH is less of an issue to a sportscar driver for example.

But it is difficult to see how the company will make enough money to cover development costs just to keep the car in production, let alone replace it. I don't fancy their chances to be honest - but if they do pull it off, and start manufacturing a British made sports car under a famous British brand plate, then I will be supporting them!
 

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sadtosee said:
Of course not, but when was the last privately financed complete start-up mid to high volume car manufcaturer started in Western Europe or the USA?
Agreed, but isn't that a classic piece of "elephant repellant"? (old gag: man walking down the street clicking fingers. What are you doing? asks as a passer-by. Keeping the elephants away... Bu there are no elephants round here. See, it works...)

Just because nobody has made it happen doesn't mean nobody can. Anyhow my point wasn't quite that - it was simply commenting that MGR were not necessarily indicative of a good investment opportunity in the car industry, ownership of plant and land notwithstanding.

Who'd have predicted desirable Skodas?
 

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why does he not ask triumph bikes to colaberate in geting back in to car production ,even look at old reliant sports cars
 
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