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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!
My Rover 414 Si 1998 now have a issue with the cylinder head, it's consuming 1 liter coolant per trip. And when i am filling more water it start to mose (noice) from the head. The oil is not the right color. My suspicion is the headgasket.

I have found a head for a 1,6 liter (16K4F), see this link: Visa produkt | Laga - begagnade bildelar
Can i use this to my 1,4 liter 14K4F?
I haven't found any 1,4 head in Sweden.

The engine runs OK and no grey or black fumes från the exhaust when i am reving it.

But i begin to be a litle worried about driving, what is your opinion should i stop driving until i fix this?

Do you think it is only the gasket or the whole head i need to replace?

Best regards!

Martin
 

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'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
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I do not think you will need a new cylinder head unless your engine has severely overheated. The cylinder heads for the all the 16 valve engine sizes is the same part (with the exception of the 1.8 VVC), so the one in your link should be correct.

I would get the engine fixed as soon as you are able to do. It certainly looks like cylinder head gasket failure from what you describe. If coolant is getting into the oil in the quantity that you mentioned, it may make the engine more liable to damage (bearing shells and camshaft journals in particular). I would expect you will just need the head gasket replacing and an oil flush to remove any contaminated oil from the system. The head may need a skim if the fire rings have indented the head face
 

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rover_sd1
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Are you sure it is the cylinder head. Check your Core plugs [ welsh plugs to some] These corrode and leak with age. When the engine cold you do not see the leak. A hot engine picks up any leaks quite quickly. and then only if there is a physical drip will they leak with the engine off. Over time I have found five leaking plugs over period of time. Most are hard to see but using an mobile phone endoscope attachment leaks are easy to find.for the twenty pounds spent..
 

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rover_25
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Are you sure it is the cylinder head. Check your Core plugs [ welsh plugs to some] These corrode and leak with age. When the engine cold you do not see the leak. A hot engine picks up any leaks quite quickly. and then only if there is a physical drip will they leak with the engine off. Over time I have found five leaking plugs over period of time. Most are hard to see but using an mobile phone endoscope attachment leaks are easy to find.for the twenty pounds spent..
no core plugs in a k series
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would get the engine fixed as soon as you are able to do. It certainly looks like cylinder head gasket failure from what you describe. If coolant is getting into the oil in the quantity that you mentioned, it may make the engine more liable to damage (bearing shells and camshaft journals in particular). I would expect you will just need the head gasket replacing and an oil flush to remove any contaminated oil from the system. The head may need a skim if the fire rings have indented the head face
Yes i think it is the head gasket, i have looked for more leaks outside the motor but not find anything.
I going to sheck the head with a steel ruler so it´s flat and not skewed.
But what do you mean by "...if the fire rings have indented the head face"?
I am not a mechanic so that´s why I ask.

Best regards!
Martin
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Are you sure it is the cylinder head. Check your Core plugs [ welsh plugs to some] These corrode and leak with age. When the engine cold you do not see the leak. A hot engine picks up any leaks quite quickly. and then only if there is a physical drip will they leak with the engine off. Over time I have found five leaking plugs over period of time. Most are hard to see but using an mobile phone endoscope attachment leaks are easy to find.for the twenty pounds spent..
Yes I am quite sure. So I am going for the head gasket. It´s soo much sludge in the oil, what else can i be? I can sheck the compression in each cylinder and so on but I am thinking of skiping that.

Best regards!
Martin
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am thinking to re-use my cylinder head bolts. As I understand it you can do that but measure them first.
What is your opinion and how shall i measure them?

Best regards!
Martin
 

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'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
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....But what do you mean by "...if the fire rings have indented the head face"?
I am not a mechanic so that´s why I ask.
The head gasket has solid steel rings that trap between the the top of the cylinder liner and the head face to retain the pressure within the cylinder - sometimes (due to overheating; often very localised) the alloy on the head face becomes annealled or softened and the clamping force on the fire rings then allows the fire rings to bite into the head face causing a circular indentation in the alloy, and this in turn relaxes the clamping force. The result is usually that exhaust gases under pressure get forced past the fire ring and into the coolant system whilst the engine is running, and when the engine is stopped, the gas does not shrink as it cools to the same amount as the coolant would, so the system remains slightly pressurised even when cold. This is one form of head gasket failure.

If the indentation is not too deep the head can be machined (skimmed) to make the surface completely flat again, but there is a minimum height/thickness specification for the head which does not allow for more than a very small amount of material to be skimmed off. If the indentations are to deep, either the head has to be scrapped, or it is possible to take 'too much' material off and then fit a flat metal plate to replace the thickness of alloy removed by the skim (called a 'head saver shim).

I am thinking to re-use my cylinder head bolts. As I understand it you can do that but measure them first.
What is your opinion and how shall i measure them?
Yes, it should be fine to re-use them if they are not stretched beyond the tolerance. Blueser (what became of him I wonder?) posted the head bolt inspection procedure some years ago.
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Man in the Car! I´ll be testing that procedure for the bolts and look for indentation damage also! Best regards! Martin
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi again! Now i have dismantled the engine. The only thing i´ve found was that the headgasket sealing is damaged in some places, se picture where the orange seal is loose and out of place. The head looks fine it´s not skew or have any cracks that i can see with my eyes.
So i´m going to put it all toghether and hope and pray for the best!

Best regards!
Martin

DSC_0771.JPG
DSC_0777.JPG
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Hi Again!

When i puting back the bolts, something strange happens. Only half the bolts go back in the bottom around the measuring distance of 97 mm (haven´t measured the bolts yet). The other bolts don´t go down even close to the 97 mm, se the pictures.
I am wondering if it is oil in the bolt holes that stops the bolt to go down any furter or is the threads just scrap on this blots, they have expand to much over the years so i can´t use them?
What is your idea?
I lean against the latter i would say.
The bad bolts is on the right side of the engine, the other side of the sprockets side.

I don´t think i have damage the threads on the bolts or in the sump/crank.
The bolts look good when i´m looking at them, no optical damage that i can see.

Best regards!

Martin
136812
136813
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi again!

Now I´m leaning at the other direction, that it´s oil in the bult holes in the crank who stops the cylinder bolts to go any deeper. I had look on the exploded views on the engine i Haynes manual an the holes are closed, no opening in the bottom of the holes. So i am going to suck out the oil from the bult holes and try the cylinder bolts again.

Best regards

Martin
 

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...... The only thing i´ve found was that the headgasket sealing is damaged in some places, se picture where the orange seal is loose and out of place.......
This is the usual way that the SLS/elastomer gasket fails - the elastomer beading becomes unbonded from the stainless shim. It seems to be caused by heat (often localised overheating and due to the restricted coolant circulation). One of the most beneficial things that can be done is to use a minidrill/Dremel or similar with a small grinding attachment to remove the excess metal from the coolants holes into the head and enlarge the holes a little; this will improve flow into and through the head and significantly improve cooling).

Now I´m leaning at the other direction, that it´s oil in the bult holes in the crank who stops the cylinder bolts to go any deeper. I had look on the exploded views on the engine i Haynes manual an the holes are closed, no opening in the bottom of the holes.
I am not sure where you a finding such pictures, but the holes that the long bolts screw into are in the lower oil rail, and do go right through the oil rail casting so it definitely won't be "oil in the bolt holes" which is causing the problem. I would say it is most likely that it is dirt and other particles in the threads that is making the threads tight (some people have found that they need to work the bolts back and forth to loosen them off in the first place, due to a build up of dirt deposit on the threads which protrude below below the oil rail). It is possible that yours were similarly caked with dirt, which may have slightly damaged the threads as they were wound out.

I would start by removing them and thoroughly cleaning the bolt threads, lubricate with fresh oil and try winding them in again, but work them in both directions once they become tight and only try to go a little further as they loosen off. If this doesn't work, you will probably have to take the sump off and remove the oil rail to clean the threads properly.

Or, better still, replace the existing oil rail with the newer strengthened design.
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Thanks Man in the car. What you say makes more sense than my speculations. I´m thinking of buying a new oil rail instead of trying to work with the original one.

What supplier of the oil rail do you recommend?

The head gasket that I am going to fit is the same model as the one thats broken from the picture above. Is this a good type och head gasket?
I see that it´s a little thick 1,2 mm, I saw anoither one that is only 0,5 mm thick, is it better to have a thinner one?

From what i can see the engine and the head looks fine, the fire rings of the motor have´t move by pressure up or down, the same little edge on all four cylinders.

Best regards!

Martin
 

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rover_400_95_99
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Hi have a few more questions! :)

Here are oil rails for the Rover engine: Rover 400/45 MG ZS Block, Pistons 1400 Petrol 16V K Series (rimmerbros.com)
It´s two of them (se number 7). The part no.: LCN100210NEWTO is "New take off" and as i understand it the older not modified version of the oil rale, am I right?
The part no.: LCN000140L is the newer modified modell and the genuine one. Part no.: LCN000140LP is the new modell and aftermarket one.
I want my Rover to have the best thing, is the genuine one a little bit better or what?

Which is the part I should choose?

When i change the oil rail do i need to take away the crankshaft first to be able to change the oil rale?
And do i need some more parts to change the oil rail?

Best regards!

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I found a video on Youtube "K series - How to Make it Reliable. 4 steps. N Series Gasket, Oil Rail, PRT, Bolts" and he suggest four things to make the engine more reliable:
"1) Use the new N series (MLS but no extra steel shim, as it's not needed since there's no fire ring on the HG to dig in the head.
2) Use the stronger oil rail (LANDROVER part) to strengthen the engine to stop it moving under thermal stress
3) Use high tensile strength head bolts
4) Use the PRT (LANDROVER external thermostat) to reduce thermal stress.
This brings the engine up to the the engine spec used in the MG6 which is good on reliability, from what I read." citation from the Youtube-site: K series - How to Make it Reliable. 4 steps. N Series Gasket, Oil Rail, PRT, Bolts - YouTube

Do anyone of you have experience of this upgrade package and can you recommend it?

Best regards!

Martin
 

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The part no.: LCN100210NEWTO is "New take off" and as i understand it the older not modified version of the oil rale, am I right?
That is correct - the strengthened oil rail wasn't available until early 2006; nearly a year after the last MG Rover engines were built ('New Take-Off' simply means that the part was removed from a part-built car or part built engine on the production line after MG Rover had gone bust. The parts had been fitted, but not used).

I am not sure what precise difference there is between the genuine MG Rover/Land Rover one (which I think will have been manufactured by Hyundai), and the aftermarket one which appears from the picture to be made by BGA. BGA are a perfectly reputable supplier of aftermarket parts so I would not think there should be anything wrong with really. However, if it was my car, I would tend to favour the genuine MG Rover or Land Rover supplied parts I think (purely a personal choice and based on no particular evidence of knowledge!).

The oil rail bolts to the underside of the crankshaft ladder, so there will be no need to remove the crank ladder or crankshaft to replace the oil rail, and the only other thing that you will need will be the anaerobic sealant to apply between the new oil rail and the crankshaft ladder. The same sealant can be used to reseal the sump to the bottom of the block (Loctite 574 is the one that has always been most recommended around the forum).

I would also be inclined to use the 6-layer N-series gasket along with the strengthened rail and higher tensile through bolts (available as a complete kit from XPart agents under part number ZUA000531, although quite expensive at nearly £200). You would also need to check that there is sufficient stand proud of the cylinder liner above the block, and that the liners are of even height above the block to reliably use either of the multi layer type gaskets - probably 2 to 4 thou measured using a metal straight-edge and feeler gauges.

NB: the SAIC/N series gasket and bolts have a different tightening sequence from both the original K series elastomer gasket and the first type Multi Layer steel gasket (MLS - often referred to as the 'Land Rover' gasket as it became available through Land Rover first) 9.8 tensile bolts.

SLS/Elastomer gasket and 9.8 bolts = 20 Nm + 180 degrees +180 degrees

MLS ('Land Rover') gasket and shim with 9.8 bolts = 20Nm + 180 degrees + 180 degrees

SAIC/ N series gasket and 10.9 bolts = 20Nm + 180 degrees + 135 degrees

I don't think I would bother with the PRT thermostat - much is made of it in some quarters, but MG Rover fitted it as standard to the 75/ZT 1.8 turbo and to late MG TFs, but there is no evidence that it actually made any measurable difference - the head gasket failure rate remained similar to that of engines with no PRT.

I wouldn't take much notice of people who go on about 'thermal stress' or 'thermal shock' with regards to the K series; it really isn't an issue, particularly with regard to the head gasket. During the development of the K series, Rover couldn't get the K series head gasket to fail at all using the industry standard thermal shock test, and had to devise an even more extreme test to cause the K series gasket to fail. This suggests that the original K series elastomer head gasket is rather less affected by thermal shock than most 'conventional' head gaskets.
 
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