[RitchieRitch]

Hi,
If anybody could help me with some advice on the following it would be much appreciated.

I purchased a TF as a project a few weeks ago now and I am trying to get it road worthy. The car doesn't seem too bad but the brakes were awful and like a previous TF I had purchased I soon discovered that one of the front callipers had seized.
However, since I planned on keeping this car for a while I decided to purchase the AP 2-pot callipers with the bigger discs, which I was told was a straight forward conversion, and fit these.
It seemed straight forward enough, apart from the wheels, which I will get to in another post. 16 inch wheels with those brakes just doesn't work

Anyway, after fitting the brakes etc and driving the car to a local garage for some bodywork I soon discovered the brakes stopped working. That was a scary moment. I didn't die, but after some investigation by the garage it was discovered that the rear rotating side of the wheel hub had worn through the brake hose causing the brake fluid to spill everywhere, hence the lack of brakes.

The mechanic has since said to get bigger wheels because 16inch wheels won't work. He also said that I need different brake hoses because the current set up causes them to rub against the hub. Is this because I have fitted AP callipers? And if so, what hoses do I require? Any help is greatly appreciated.

My wheel dilemma will be in a separate post if you fancy contributing to that

 

[nocturneblue]

Er, I thought the AP 2 - pot calipers were paired with 16" alloys from the outset.

I have the 11 spoke 16" alloys fitted on a TF 135 as a factory option with the AP calipers. It was only a standard combo for the TF160 but as an option the 135 could be delivered with the same alloy/caliper/disc arrangement, 'Sports Pack 2' I think it was named.

What sort of alloys are you using?

 

[ArntyR]

Hi not wishing to be argumentative but I think the 'standard' was the 11-spoke/AP4-pot combination originally for the TF160.

I think this was seen as a particularly effective F/TF upgrade since, and was resurrected for the later 05-> 'Motors' models along with newer-but-still-old 11-spokes/new Twist-of-Pepper/new V-spoke 16" wheels that cleared the thicker calipers.

As far as I can see the AP-2pots seem to be a current, less costly but just as effective, alternative to the 4-pots. They seem to have the same dimensions and presentation - but one pair of opposing pistons.

The (rarer?) 4-pots are much more expensive - so perhaps the 2-pots seem to be a more popular v-f-m option now?

(It'd be easier for you to get specific advice if you posted pics of all your own original wheel types and subsequent size decisions...It can all be a bit confusing; V-spokes can be 15" or 16", I gather, but I know 11-spokes and T-o-Ps will fit over AP 4-pots.)

 

[nocturneblue]

Arnty,

Ah, my mistake, didn't take on board the AP 2/AP 4 distinction.

All the same, if they have the same dimensions it comes down to the type of alloys being used - as you seem to agree. Last time I bought an 11-spoke alloy wheel new it was in the £125-£140 region, so given the OP bought the more cost effective calipers it would seem overly expensive to buy a new set of alloys at this stage... tricky...

 

[RitchieRitch]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies, although I suppose I had started a similar discussion in a separate post.

I bought the 2-pot AP callipers because the complete set wasn't much more expensive than buying new single pot callipers once I had factored in new discs and pads as well. I watched a few videos on installing them and was informed that the installation required certain 16inch wheels or larger. I know very little about MG wheels though so after measuring the ones that were already on the car I thought they would fit. And now that I have the callipers installed I don't really wnt to buy a new set of alloys as that will blow my budget, especially if you are quoting that price for a single wheel.

I have bought some 17inch wheels now as well as some hub adaptors, which I am in the process of installing. They were a good price and they look good on the car. But now I have some 16inch MG wheels with excellent tyres that I have no use for

I wil add a photo of the wheels if anybody knows what type they are?

 

[ArntyR]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but these are Rover 'hairpins', that I've never seen fitted to F/TFs.

I don't know if there are both 16" and/or 17" versions but I think they were probably 'around' on Rover saloons before the AP-4 pots came onto the F/TF scene - demanding a new wheel to make them fit.
(And, why the need for 11-spokes if these hairpins bolted straight on?...)

So, are these hairpins the 17" wheels that you've bought? If so; agreed they look good but I wonder if somebody on the forum has made these 17"-ers fit the F/TF wheel arch w/out scrubbing and if, as a bonus, they've got them 'spaced' to fit over the red AP calipers (whether 2-pot or 4-pot)?

I think I'd wait and hope to see if there's good news - but accept that something incompatible may well have to be sold...

Since you already have the 16" tyres (195/45/16 front + 215/40/16 rear for TFs) and 'big brakes' why not go for (say, used) 11-spokes/ToPs/VSpokes instead and sell the problematic hairpins on as well as the original 16"-ers

OR keep the 16" wheels + tyres and get some standard recon'd brake calipers for the front and sell on the big brakes and incompatible wheels (only if these options are undamaged, tho'?)

Just a few thoughts (...cos, sorry, I don't see an easy solution with your ingredients...) Keep us posted.

 

[RitchieRitch]

Hi ArntyR,

So you believe they are Rover Hairpins? I wouldn't have a clue what they are but they were the 16 inch wheels that came with the TF I purchased. The guy I bought the car off said he fitted them because they were limited edition wheels or something. But I wouldn't know anything about that, or where they originally came from.
I do like them, and they are in great condition with great tyres all round.
The last TF I had came with 15inch wheels so having 16inch wheels seemed like an upgrade.
But they don't fit the callipers so they are now surplus to requirements.

Maybe I will buy a Rover saloon now so I will have a use for them

No, there doesn't seem to be an easy solution to my situation. I either have to get rid of the big brakes or the 16 inch wheels. And since I have purchased the brakes myself and the wheels were already there I am inclined to replace the wheels. Haha!!
It's just a shame that the wheel stud diameter on the TF is so awkward which limits the choice available.
But as mentioned in another post, I am in the process of fitting hub adapters to the car so that I can fit some 17inch wheels I have recently purchased. But even these 17inch wheels and adapters still require spacers
Why can't anything be simple?

And I haven't even begun to look at the brake hose problem yet, which was my initial concern

 

[Man in the Car]

Those wheels are what were described in the brochures as '16" Multispoke' alloys and were offered as an option for both the F and TF (not actually a 'limited edition' but as an optional extra, would be much less common than the standard fit rims).

They are not the same design as the '16" Hairpins' fitted to the ZR/ZS which have a PCD of 4x100mm whereas the F and TF are 4x95.25mm (a carry-over resulting from using existing pre-metric hubs which were 3 and 3/4 inch PCD). Therefore the MG saloon Hairpins are not a suitable fit as they would bend the wheel studs outwards when the nuts are tightened - the resulting extra stress could well lead to stud failure, which may be considered undesirable at speed!

You are unfortunate to have a 16" type that won't fit over the AP calipers- the AP upgrade in Sportspack 1 came with Silver Sparkle 16" 'Eleven Spokes' which had a thinner, lighter rim which could clear those calipers. Sportspack 3 had what were described in the brochure as Gun-metal 16" 'Ultra Lightweight' alloys, which were also 11 spokes.

The parts list doesn't list different brake hoses for the AP calipers, so I think you must have something fitted or routed differently to get the chafing that you describe. Either that, or the two pot calipers are not quite the same configuration as the factory fit four pots?

 

[ArntyR]

Finally some good factual info there and I'm absolutely happy to be corrected.
To me it wasn't obvious that the wheels that you eventually picc'd were the original 16"-ers...

 

[nocturneblue]

I've never messed around with non-standard tyres or alloys so don't know really know much about the subject but it occurs to me that - correct me if I'm wrong here - when fitting larger rims, the outer tyre diameter remains the same - which means the tyres have to be super low profile? Given the already bone-jarring ride of the 2002-2004? TF wouldn't the use of ultra-low profile 17" rims make the ride even harder? Of course, if the profile of the tyre is kept constant and 17" rims are used the tyre outer diameter grows - then scrubbing the arches perhaps at full lock?
Having bent and cracked two standard 11 spoke 16" alloys already (had to scrap one) by hitting potholes, be aware - the lower the tyre profile, the more it transmits the road irregularities to the rims and car.