I think you can do it cheaper, in fact i know you can do it cheaper. But its more which do you prefure? NA screamers sound AMAZING. But torque is much more fun.

 

Buy the supercharged F on ebay.

Yes Ive warned against it but you can break it down, use the engine (service it and if needed replace internals) and then sell all the bits on the F.

Would be about £4000 cost and £1000 made back from selling stuff....

 

By another car and save your money.

As you have said your going to shell out a load on the engine etc, and then you havent even touched what you could then spend on suspension and brakes etc.

Get a MR2 mk2 turbo or a Nissan 200sx and you have your 200 ponies straight away

 

IMHO it's truly unjustifiable spending that amount of money for a TF... If I had £5k to spare (and I don't) I think I would go for something like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-X-PO...000-X-PORSCHE-BOXSTER-3-2-S-/251212183856?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a7d69b930

But at the end of the day it's your money and with mine...I pxed my TF for an Audi TT 225 3 weeks ago and I haven't had any regret yet :woo:

 

IMHO it's truly unjustifiable spending that amount of money for a TF... If I had £5k to spare (and I don't) I think I would go for something like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-X-PO...000-X-PORSCHE-BOXSTER-3-2-S-/251212183856?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a7d69b930

But at the end of the day it's your money and with mine...I pxed my TF for an Audi TT 225 3 weeks ago and I haven't had any regret yet :woo:

any decent forums for Audi's?

 

Yup for 5-6k you can get porka boxsters, nissan 350zx,honda s2000 and all sorts.
One thing though is the insurance is definitely going to be dearer.

 

I bet the insurance for a TF with 200bhp and an endless list of mods would be pretty dear too ;-)

 

Why did i even bother taking the time and effort to write post#1 ??

Take the Audi talk to the Audi forum, or to the 'Non-model Specific' forum area.

 

So I'm curious as to why most of you have posted in this thread - if you don't want to spend money on an F/TF, then don't. But don't come in to a thread where the OP has clearly stated he has looked into downgrading/trading and decided he prefers his MG, then slag him off for it.

For what it's worth, I agree with John - you can do stuff cheaper than paying someone to do a conversion, but it depends on your skills/time/money/desire etc. Personally, I'd go for a supercharger, partly because I already have, but I wouldn't go the turbo technics-style route. I much prefer positive-displacement superchargers, they just make an engine feel like it's much bigger. Jon Norris is about to sell up his project, I'd be buying that for the wife's car if we weren't currently 11000 miles away from the car and a bit poor.

 

I spent over £6k on my TF pal....but I do agree with you I shouldn't have hijacked the post.

I do apologise Pritchard

 

id go FI too, it all depends on what you want. Will you be happy once youve crossed the 200 mark? or will you want more?

 

It's a real jump into the unknown really and I don't envy you having to choose. There are so few 200+ TFs out there you can't go and jump in the various options for a test drive to see what you want.
The worst case scenario is spending a lot of money and still not being satisfied. It might be worth looking at a "building block" approach where you look at how anything you spend out is re-useable if you want to move to the next step. Clearly that's not the case with an engine swap.

Personally if I was going for one of these I'd go supercharged but I'm a whine addict

 

That supercharged F that's on eBay would probably be the most cost effective way to seeing 200bhp+. And at least you could drive it before fitting all the bits to your car unlike the other options on your list.

It's nice to see people spending money on these cars btw. Makes me feel a little better about the coin thats gone and going into mine :lol:

 

Tend to agree. I think the blown option is the way forward. Think one may be on sale soon judging from a post by Mr Norris.

 

Buy the car, drive it back, strip the engine, sell it on.

Give me your piper cam

simples.

 

Buy the car, drive it back, strip the engine, sell it on.

Give me your piper cam

simples.

Thumbs up.


The only problem I have with that idea is the reliability of that engine in question. The more i seem to dig/hear, the more shady it becomes.
Theres a very good rhym for such things; If in doubt, leave it the **** alone.

Well I also like the idea of a Forced induction. However, with the bottom end needing working doing to it for this it makes it even more expensive. This is what is steering me towards larger displacement.

(i've not heard of anyone going for the thick headgaskets to reduct compression on the K's... open to answers here)

going to throw this out there too - what about that KV6 conversion that has been spoken about before. Assuming I had the engine in my hand, how much is that conversion? and who could carry out such work?

 

1.8K turbo would have to be worth considering 200hp+ is easy enough and XR3tf,s has proven a turbo engine is a good option.

 

I agree with this, if 200hp (and maybe a bit more) is the goal then 1.8T is going to be hard to beat for the money - they take that with just a remap on the standard internals. If you want 220+ then it's going to be more expensive.

 

Couldn't you use an R75/ZT 1.8T bottom end?

 

Well, the answer is obvious - options B and D together You get a bottom end capable of a bit of boost and even more power (this is what we've done, although we already had a well-developed 1.9 VVC before it got blown). We are using a spacer for the head, as the CR was about 11.5:1 before supercharging. It's not 100% ideal as it affects the squish negatively, but my old man has been reading up on it and apparently altering the design of the spacer a bit should help. It is much cheaper than special pistons though.

 

oh yes, it seems they are available!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-MG-...ANIFOLDS-/181102672686?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a2a8f7b2e

Still, this isnt a task I would want to undertake... This would need to be done by a professional. but i bet my local mechie wouldnt want to touch it.

 

Mglifestyle are offering the kv6 conversion.

If you have the pockets, heat can be dealt with, ceramic coating on the manifolds and blankets for the turbo, then you can have heat shields, really isn't the issue it's been made out to be

 

Mglifestyle are offering the kv6 conversion.

If you have the pockets, heat can be dealt with, ceramic coating on the manifolds and blankets for the turbo, then you can have heat shields, really isn't the issue it's been made out to be

so many things to reply back. Alot of good info from you chaps.
With regard to this quote ^^^ excellent find! just trying to contact them now.
Im curious to know what they have done... engine swaps, forced induction conversions...

 

I thought with Pritchards parting shot he was waying up if its worth spending all that money or putting it towards something else with his parting shot below.
Of course theres nowt wrong with spending money on your TF if thats what you wanna do,its def not something I'd do. I do all my stuff on a budget, and if i had 5k to spend on a car it would be too buy another faster car.
Hope you can get your thread back on the path you wanted :rofl:


[/QUOTE]In comparison, something I just found on Autotrader:[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
Audi S8, 4.2 V8, standard, T reg.
355bhp - £2,800.

Sigh. I remember the day when an engine transplant or Forced Induction would double your power for £3000!! Blame Fast and Furious for commercial capitalisation?


How deep are my pockets you say?
A better question is how much do i want to lose?!


(now its time to get ripped to shreds as im sure i have inaccurate info above somewhere - other than that, lets discuss). [/QUOTE]

 

Pritchard. I think a lot of folk on here are happy to see you spending your way to a 200bhp nasp engine, and keep spending more and going further with the spec, as to my knowledge there aren't many 200bhp K-series MGTF's around?

What are you getting with your completed mods now the decent big bore exhaust manifold is in place? I would expect 175bhp+ with where your at now after all those bits IMO. It's not what you want to hear, but if you still have a few quid to spend on it, id just get the light weight flywheel and have a proper DVA ported head. That will take you to over 180bhp easily, and your at the limit of what a VVC160 engine can make with std internals then.

There is no way i'd be going for ITB's, aftermarket ECU's and high compression pistons etc for a 1.8K. You'd need to lose the VVC and get the expensive cam blanking kit to make full use of those mods too. if you want to rev to 8000rpm, then you'd want forged rods too. Yes you'd crack 200bhp at 1.8 litres, but there's no way in the world I think a K-series justifies that sort of spend for a proper useable road car that needs some drivability and is a daily driver. It would be fine for a track day caterham that only does a few road miles and is not relied on as serious road car. But it's too fragile/maintainence intensive and not worth the spend in an 1100kg roadster IMO.

The high end options your considering would probably get you most of the way to having a Honda K20 conversion done, and there's head room there for around 300bhp with a supercharger kit as well. At least it would be more VFM for your cash and give you future options, if your really not happy with where your at with your 180bhp?

 

Perfectly possible to get 200+ out of a VVC, retaining the VVC system, and no reason at all such an engine should be fragile. And ITBs are a very good option on the VVC, so long as you have the space for the trumpets and airbox - but that is no different to the non-VVC engines. My car is used on the road and in all sorts of motorsport, gets abused frequently and has been very reliable in all sorts of states of tune - prior to the supercharger is was a 1.9 VVC with a highly modified, big valve head, ITBs, modded exhaust cam, 11.5:1 CR etc and it never gave us problems.

 

Expensive maybe instead of fragile. But yes I did see a VVC engine in a BRM once that had been fitted with a ported head, hotter exhaust cam, Jenvey ITB's and an Emerald ECU. I think they let it rev to 7400rpm with the VVC mech fitted and the power was climbing as the rev limiter cut it, and it was around 190bhp If I remember right?

But It's been said many times that the VVC system is ultimately un-reliable once you go past the std factory 7200rpm limit, and it was marginal at this speed. I think if the OP is going to build a rest of his engine to a spec that can break 200bhp, the VVC mech will limit the power and rpm ultimately so that the full potential of his engine will not be achieved.

I'm sure 200bhp can be had retaining a working VVC system, but it's not a route I would want to go down myself.

 

My VVC was revving to 7600 (autotesting frequently, among other things, so saw 7600 plenty of times); an Elise we helped with the build on was pushing 215+ and 8000rpm, from a 1.8 VVC. No problems with the VVC system at all.

It's far from impossible. As far as I'm concerned the VVC is hard to beat for a road car.

 

Well, what started off as a bit of a hijack ( well done Pritchard for bringing it back ) ended up being very very interesting :broon: Half I dont understand and never will but i love reading these sort of threads

 

[/QUOTE]In comparison, something I just found on Autotrader:[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
Sigh. I remember the day when an engine transplant or Forced Induction would double your power for £3000!! Blame Fast and Furious for commercial capitalisation?
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Still does...IF you have a MK1, THE true MX-5! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-MX5...Wideband-/310478228617?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4849f1cc89

IF you blow up an MX-5 engine, as i did, there are plenty available from £75 - the price I actually paid for mine - MX-5's are SO reliable there's little demand for 1.6 engines!

 

I was at a similar crossroads last year Prichard

I did loads of research.. Made a shopping list etc

Then had a meeting at Hellier Performance

Jason kindly and patiently ran through numerous routes for spending my cash.. Listing the pros and cons of each route

One thing Jason was keen to point out was he never guarantees a final BHP figure as all engines vary... But could give me a ball park figure

I opted for the route I did as my car is ment to be a luxury GT rather than an out and out race car

I know most on here would scoff at anyone spending 10k (or more) on an F/TF.. But then how much of that is jealousy?

Watching this with interest mate

Allan

 

I was at a similar crossroads last year Prichard

I did loads of research.. Made a shopping list etc

Then had a meeting at Hellier Performance

Jason kindly and patiently ran through numerous routes for spending my cash.. Listing the pros and cons of each route

One thing Jason was keen to point out was he never guarantees a final BHP figure as all engines vary... But could give me a ball park figure

I opted for the route I did as my car is ment to be a luxury GT rather than an out and out race car

I know most on here would scoff at anyone spending 10k (or more) on an F/TF.. But then how much of that is jealousy?

Watching this with interest mate

Allan

What is the dollars/Hp.

You are not doing your own engine and it looks like prichard is in the same boat

I brought a broken T16 engine last week my budget is $6000.00 nz so about 3000 pounds for an aim at 370hp Im not 100% it is doable but reasonable sure it is

It would be interesting to quantify K-series against alternatives at $/hp

 

I quite agree. Bhp/£ is mad... But each to their own.. And everyone is entitled to spend their money however they like

I've never said anything other an Ive paid to have my engine built.. As I'm not skilled in engines.. No shame there..

 

I quite agree. Bhp/£ is mad... But each to their own.. And everyone is entitled to spend their money however they like

I've never said anything other an Ive paid to have my engine built.. As I'm not skilled in engines.. No shame there..

It wasn’t a shot with the workmanship you have shown rebuilding a good hp engine you could do easy

I have spent more dollars then I care to mention on a 5.8 liter V8 to make not much more hp then the T16 I’m planning as you say each to there own

Just more for people reading to put Hp/$ into context

 

There is a case for spending more on a car than it's monetary value.
It 's what the end result is worth to the individual in question, the enjoyment obtained from tinkering about with machinery, the satisfaction in a job well done and the pride in one's own workmanship.
The value of these benefits cannot be calculated on a bean counters balance sheet!

A car out of the showroom is the product of someone else's creativity, skill, vision and hard work.
The customiser has the knowledge that a large portion of the car is his/her own work. So in their eyes they not only own the car it becomes part of them.
Something the bloke that just goes out and buys a faster car misses out on, he has the car in his name but does he ever own it in a psychological and philosophical sense? I think not.

Yes generally the buyer has to do hard work to pay for the car,
but as far as this argument is concerned, by and large that is negated by how much the customiser has to spend to modify his car.

It's a heap more fun to hose off a much more expensive and highly regarded car in the product of your own hands.

It all comes down to personal values, it's just not possible to calculate these on a bankers ledger.

 

I wish I could build engines.. Would of loved the entire build to have been all my own work

But hey ho..

I'm with cobber.. I couldn't care what I've spent or what the car is worth.. I've loved every min of my build... Making it all my own work (except the engine)