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Discussion Starter #1
Right a few weeks a go i had a little "off" smashing an alloy. No other damage as ive had a really (read several hours) look arround the car over a ramp. things ok.


however...

when i got it 4 wheel aligned (took me ages to get somone near barnsley as most wouldnt touch it, inc the local dealer) the front to rear alignment was out somewhat. Had it dialed back in and i must say that the car handles much better than when i first for it. Sits on the road well and corners a lot more progresivly.

The problem is the wheel base appears to be off centre to the body now. If i hold a spitit level on the top of the wings and hold it to the wheel the wheels are shifted over to the right ogf the car. This is allround. Were looking at about 8mm i recon at the max here but it just doesnt look right if you look for it. Can it be adjusted accross? is it a common problem? I do know that lots of moders cars are like this espesially bm's.


Im all ears.
 

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Can't quite understand what you are saying TBO.
If i hold a spitit level on the top of the wings and hold it to the wheel the wheels are shifted over to the right ogf the car. This is allround. Were looking at about 8mm i recon at the max here but it just doesnt look right if you look for it. Can it be adjusted accross?
Are you trying to say the the front subframe assembly has moved to the right had side of the car, it other words the front wheels are not in line with the rears?
If so than it sounds like you did more than just damage a wheel in the accident. At the least I would get a 4 wheel laser alignment done, not just a 2 wheel as that doesn't show the full picture.
May also be worth taking it to an MG dealer or decent repair garage and getting them to check nothing is bent (subframe/suspension etc).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi,

Aye theyve checked nothing is bent. What im saying the whe whole car is over if you like. Everythings in line but the wings dont match up to the tyers if you like.

Can anyone recoment a 4wheel alignment up here? (barnsley/sheffield/leeds area)
 

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maybe i can help

AndyBrad said:
Hi,

Aye theyve checked nothing is bent. What im saying the whe whole car is over if you like. Everythings in line but the wings dont match up to the tyers if you like.

Can anyone recoment a 4wheel alignment up here? (barnsley/sheffield/leeds area)
first my field is wheel geometry and geometry theory,so my experience with the type of issue that you have i deal with and train students about every day, if the body height is now uneven then you must have a camber problem...all cars in effect are a sandwitch? an upper and lower parallelogram ( stay with me ) so becouse of the points of application if the camber is moved this will increase or decrease the upper parallelogram and the body will become uneven, toe? wheel alignment won't do this? measure the trim height, mid wheel arch to mid wheel nsf/ osf/ front and rear, in addition where was the impact front or rear? post the measurments or mail me @ [email protected] or go to www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk and read for yourself. this is not blind advice WIM has worked hard for Lexus Owners Club UK and NISSAN with one to one results, one more thing 4wheel alignment is as good as a handbrake on a conoe, you need a full geometry.
let me know, Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks for the reply.

The car is the same height side to side (within a mm or so) Ive also had the caster and camber checked at the time of the 4 wheel alignment. The toe and caster/camber appears to be correct. If you imagine the car as a chassis and body senario then its like the body is 10mm to the right when it was put on. I hope that makes sense. Is it possible to wind the wheels back accross if you like? or is it a case of thats how it is?

Where are you based as theres no addy on the site.
 

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Andy, we are in Goldthorpe, about 10mins from Barnsley centre. We can check the full geometry for you and advise what your problem may be.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ah right mike. Thing is i remember phoning your place when i first did it. I was told that i couldnt buy a wheel from yourselves and you didnt do tracking. Was a young lady by the sounds of things.

Ok though. How much for it checking?

I think it may just be me? Ive measured the wing to centre of wheel and its about 16mm out total to the body. However ive just measured the jag s type and the vw beetle and they are 45mm out total!!!! it handles ok so im guessing it could be manufacturing tols? Seems a lot though.

Anyways tell me how much it is? Your place open now? or next sat?
 

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Andy, we don't stock every wheel that MG have made so chances are we didn't have the wheel you were after, if it is a TF160 wheel then we don't stock it only to order. If you asked for just tracking doing then we don't, 'cos we only do a full geo check and adjustment for £65.00 plus vat. It is pointless just doing 'tracking'. Lots of companies offer tracking for few quid but as Tony has pointed out it is as good as a handbrake on a canoe. We don't do this job on a Saturday Iam afraid so it would be mon-fri. 9-5.30. Also we check for worn components first and replace these before any adjustments can be made.
If you have had a 'puter print out of the settings then you should be able to see any out of tolerance components such as KPI angle caster or camber etc.Pop over (phone first!)with it and we can see if there is any readings that are out.:beer2:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for that mike,

I dont have a computer print out as its been done with a manual laser type thingy. ill call sometime next week
 

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AndyBrad said:
Thanks for that mike,

I dont have a computer print out as its been done with a manual laser type thingy. ill call sometime next week
I'm in Watford Herts, the offer from Mike seems valid, go for it... the only way to validate cradle symmetry is with a full geometry. this in your case should,
show as Mike said an inclined and a declined KPI, what you have had measured is only four wheel alignment ( 3 out of 15 angles ) go with Mike get a full geometry and post the figures, then we can all team together and help, advise is globle and free.....
Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Righty then got back from Mike Saturs today.

i recieved a written pad with the settings on. From what mike tells me they are within tolerance but here they are anyways. Comments appreciated.

Measurement NS OS

FRONT
Toe 0.00 0.00
Toot (whats this?) 2deg15m 2deg10m
Camber -0deg,15m +0deg,10m
Castor -1.05 +0.15
KPI/SAI (whats this?) +1deg -0.15

REAR
Toe -0.25 -0.25
Camber -2deg-15 -1deg-35

Front/rear (TAD)

-0.20RH -0.30 0.05




Right then. Mike spent a lot of time on this and even ended up shifting the subframe to get better results. Car now handles much better and the rear end is less skittish. An improvent but then again my pocket is also 100 quid lighter seeing as he had a few problems along the way.
 

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concerned

AndyBrad said:
Righty then got back from Mike Saturs today.

i recieved a written pad with the settings on. From what mike tells me they are within tolerance but here they are anyways. Comments appreciated.

Measurement NS OS

FRONT
Toe 0.00 0.00
Toot (whats this?) 2deg15m 2deg10m
Camber -0deg,15m +0deg,10m
Castor -1.05 +0.15
KPI/SAI (whats this?) +1deg -0.15

REAR
Toe -0.25 -0.25
Camber -2deg-15 -1deg-35

Front/rear (TAD)

-0.20RH -0.30 0.05




Right then. Mike spent a lot of time on this and even ended up shifting the subframe to get better results. Car now handles much better and the rear end is less skittish. An improvent but then again my pocket is also 100 quid lighter seeing as he had a few problems along the way.
i love the (what's this?) see www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk all the answers are there, my concern is, the caster is that nsf -1.05 osf + 0.15 ?
kpi nsf +1deg osf -0.15?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
yea sorry chap, I forgot :)

btw just for your webby you might want to split the text from the pictures as it makes for a long loading time. If you want to email it ill convery it to html for ya if you like.


I dont get what ya mean with the question? Its deg.min afaik?

oh yea and toot? I carnt figure out why he tested my horn at the same time ;)
 

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Andy, TooT is 'toe out on turns' the purpose of this is to check toe angle when the wheels are turned to right and left are equal,yours as within 5min of each other=:D
 

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AndyBrad said:
yea sorry chap, I forgot :)

btw just for your webby you might want to split the text from the pictures as it makes for a long loading time. If you want to email it ill convery it to html for ya if you like.


I dont get what ya mean with the question? Its deg.min afaik?

oh yea and toot? I carnt figure out why he tested my horn at the same time ;)
the degree/ min don't concern me but the ns + position and the os - position is a concern..with the caster and the kpi
 

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help

AndyBrad said:
yea sorry chap, I forgot :)

btw just for your webby you might want to split the text from the pictures as it makes for a long loading time. If you want to email it ill convery it to html for ya if you like.


I dont get what ya mean with the question? Its deg.min afaik?

oh yea and toot? I can'nt figure out why he tested my horn at the same time ;)
my web site needs help! built with web plus 8, and i don't know why the text loads as a pic??? the site took me a year to compile and build and i know the text upload is pants.. but why? i don't know! i work hands on within 3D maths and geometry theory, but i cannot get a handle on this text problem...
you say email ( what the site? ) any help i will really appreciate
 

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Discussion Starter #19
yup. drop all the text and images on an email (warn me of the size first) and ill sort it out for ya.


i know about the castor but it was the camber that Mike seemed to be concerened about. Unfortnatly no adjustment on a tf :(
 

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i don't understand?

AndyBrad said:
yup. drop all the text and images on an email (warn me of the size first) and ill sort it out for ya.


i know about the castor but it was the camber that Mike seemed to be concerened about. Unfortnatly no adjustment on a tf :(
The camber ( front is fine ) the camber rear needs some work, no prob,
but never/ never should you move the front subframe....now the KPI is uneven this will cause untold problems. this situation seems to be more and more common as a methode to resolve camber issues, this week alone your example
is # three, i have can fit camber adjuster bolts to the car that do not involve the KPI, but still with your geometry, what about the caster and KPI? i'm concerned
 
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