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Discussion Starter #1
One of the reasons I didn't like my previous car (Hyundai Coupe V6) was that it had a 6 speed gearbox.

While they sound like a wondrous thing, and everyone who doesn't have one wants one, I found mine bloody awful. Couldn't crack 60 in second, could only just crack 80 in 3rd. Every time you pull away from the lights you have to make very quick changes in quick succession to 3rd because the bloody thing is so low geared.

I know there must be better examples, but I would bet Hyundai only added a 6 speed box to look good on paper against the competition.

Five well chosen ratios, like on the ZS180, are all that's needed!!! :D

So we should be careful saying we want them in case MGR hear about it and decide they need to do it!
 

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They are working on a 6-speeder as far as I know. It promises to be a goodun though, so don't lose faith!

I think the trouble with the Hyundai, is that the 2.7V6 isn't particularly sporty, it's a relatively lazy engine, similar to the Rover-tune of KV6 if I recall, so it doesn't really warrant a 6-speed 'box. . . . . but then neither does a Fiat Punto Sporting, as that only has a wheezy 1.2! hehe
 

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My Car-jacked CTR had 6 speeds, it had the finest gearbox in the world......it needed to be with main drive coming in @+6,000 RPM!

But there was just not the space, you tried to go down to 5th and hit 3rd.......i totally agree with Parsec. Before long however we will have DSG and that just a 100th of second between gears!

i am wondering why MGR don't do 6 speeds though if only for marketing?

Cheers
Mega
 

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parsec said:
One of the reasons I didn't like my previous car (Hyundai Coupe V6) was that it had a 6 speed gearbox.

While they sound like a wondrous thing, and everyone who doesn't have one wants one, I found mine bloody awful. Couldn't crack 60 in second, could only just crack 80 in 3rd. Every time you pull away from the lights you have to make very quick changes in quick succession to 3rd because the bloody thing is so low geared.

I know there must be better examples, but I would bet Hyundai only added a 6 speed box to look good on paper against the competition.

Five well chosen ratios, like on the ZS180, are all that's needed!!! :D

So we should be careful saying we want them in case MGR hear about it and decide they need to do it!
As far as 6 gears go, I know the ratios in the ZR160 and probably ZS180 too are fine, except on the motorway, you need a 6th for crusing in.

Really that's how a 6spd should be geared, as a close ratio 5 with a 6th for crusing.
 

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Mega said:
My Car-jacked CTR had 6 speeds, it had the finest gearbox in the world......it needed to be with main drive coming in @+6,000 RPM!

But there was just not the space, you tried to go down to 5th and hit 3rd.......i totally agree with Parsec. Before long however we will have DSG and that just a 100th of second between gears!

i am wondering why MGR don't do 6 speeds though if only for marketing?

Cheers
Mega
Mike, is mainly due to the PG1 box not having space for a 6th. I know Quaife do a 6spd PG1 box, but there is a difference between a aftermarket box and one that has to be built to production standards.

However, the tie up with antonov should provide the way to 6 and even 7 speed boxes.

Also, you hit on one of the reasons for 6spd boxes really - engines that have high rev limits. In this case it does make sense to have more gears due to the fact they rev 1,000 or more RPM higher than other engines.

One reason why F1 cars have so many gears.
 

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Steve
They could buy the same Gearbox as Ford and Mini...The Getrag one.......i KNOW it will fit!

Cheers
Mega
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mega said:
i am wondering why MGR don't do 6 speeds though if only for marketing?
That's what I'm trying to get at - it's all about sales.

Steve, the ZS180 is great even for motorway cruising, but definitely not the ZR160? Sure you meant that car?


It's true there are two ways of doing a six-speeder:

1) a full set of six close ratio gears (e.g. Hyundai Coupe)

2) a set of five close ratio gears plus an overdrive for the motorway.


But you'd be surprised how similar they can be - 5th in the Hyundai was about the same as 5th in the ZR160 - e.g. 4000rpm at 80mph.

One advantage of a 6 speeder is you can slam it in fifth on the motorway to get a bit of extra acceleration to get round someone. One advantage of the ZS180 is you don't need to bother :bgrin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Steve said:
They are working on a 6-speeder as far as I know. It promises to be a goodun though, so don't lose faith!

I think the trouble with the Hyundai, is that the 2.7V6 isn't particularly sporty, it's a relatively lazy engine, similar to the Rover-tune of KV6 if I recall, so it doesn't really warrant a 6-speed 'box. . . . . but then neither does a Fiat Punto Sporting, as that only has a wheezy 1.2! hehe

Interesting points - you're right the "Delta V6" is a lazy engine - it's out the Santa Fe and they didn't bother remapping it! 6 gears and a lazy engine does seem silly doesn't it.

Was the Rover tune of the KV6 lazy? On my ZS180 the power output of the KV6 is exactly the same as the engine is on the R75, but the engine must be mapped totally differently - as I wouldn't exactly describe it as lazy :rocker:
 

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parsec said:
Steve, the ZS180 is great even for motorway cruising, but definitely not the ZR160? Sure you meant that car?
I did mean the ZS180, I knew they have the same box, I guess the Final Drive must be different - thinking about it, the KV6 would probably need a differrent final drive.

The ZR160 needs 6 gears, that's for sure.
 

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So why didn't MGR give them 6 -speeds at the time of the facelifts? I know at one point they planned to do so. I just wonder just how much life is left in MGR if China goes belly up? Apart from selling other peoples cars.
Mega
 

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the real reason for the new influx of 6-speeds is much stricter emission testing on engines on the continent, new engines are tested under motion and emissions per KM are given. with a 6-speed the engine speed is better matched and emissions dropped. many current lumps with 5-speeds would struggle.
 

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Mega said:
So why didn't MGR give them 6 -speeds at the time of the facelifts? I know at one point they planned to do so. I just wonder just how much life is left in MGR if China goes belly up? Apart from selling other peoples cars.
Mega
As per my previous post....

SteveChilds said:
Mike, is mainly due to the PG1 box not having space for a 6th. I know Quaife do a 6spd PG1 box, but there is a difference between a aftermarket box and one that has to be built to production standards.
I doubt they wanted to go to the expense of engineering the ZR160 & ZS180 to use a 6spd box when they'll have their own within 12-18 months. I also don't know what the torque limit is on the Getrag 6, it may not have been up to PG1 strength.
 

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SteveChilds said:
As far as 6 gears go, I know the ratios in the ZR160 and probably ZS180 too are fine, except on the motorway, you need a 6th for crusing in.

Really that's how a 6spd should be geared, as a close ratio 5 with a 6th for crusing.

No, all that is needed is a switchable overdrive.
Can't be bothered with even more gears.
But an overdrive for motorways would be excellent.
Just flick the switch - no clutch to press, no gear leve to move - superb.
This is what MGR should be doing - to be different, and better than the rest.
But they'll follow the herd just like everyone else....
 

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but think of the fuel efficiency! If such a thing were implimented along-side the other proposed advances in MGR's back-catalogue of ideas, MGR could be onto a real winner there.
 

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SteveChilds said:
Over drive though, is, so 1960s!
So what!
It offers the benefits of a 6th speed without the pain in the neck clutch/gear change.

I was given an E reg Corolla a couple of years ago as a rust heap runabout, It had an overdrive 'box - 'Economy mode' Toyota called it.

One press of a button on the gear leve engaged it - imperceptibly if you very slightly lifted off as you pressed the button (that could be done electronically these days). It was only the flick of the tacho needle and change in engine note which gave away its activation.

It disengaged itself automatically, again imperceptibly, when the engine revs dropped below about 1500.
 

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6 Speed boxes

Normal 5 speeds plus overdrive top would be ideal. Vauxhall just chucked the normal Gli/CD type top on the SRi box to make their 6 speeder on the old Cavalier/Calibras. At 70/80 any sporting Vauxhall would pull 1000rmp+ more than one of the comfy models, so that seemed like a really good compromise, best of both worlds.
 

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Mega said:
Steve
They could buy the same Gearbox as Ford and Mini...The Getrag one.......i KNOW it will fit!

Cheers
Mega
The getrag gearbox in the Focus ST170 is simply awful. I own an ST170 and it is the worst gearbox that I have had in a car, and I have had a few.

I'd rather MG Rover wait for a gearbox that is smooth in operation.

The Focus ST170's gearbox is stiff as a Pornstar.
 
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